26 



is what would be paid. The fee would be paid on the value of the 

 first sale, as I understand. They would paying that tax as the per- 

 son who sold the fish because of the program that they opposed. 



I suggest to you we ought to find some other way to collect that 

 tax from the people who wanted the ITQ/IFQ's and not put it on 

 the crew that share the fish under a fishing system where it is 

 their direct income. You know that there are joint ventures. You 

 have gone through that I assume, Dr. Baker. Is this not aimed at 

 Washington State? 



Dr. Baker. I do not know the details of how they operate their 

 programs in Washington State, so I cannot say. But I can look into 

 it. 



Senator Stevens. Well, I am hopeful we can find some way to 

 go into these fees in depth and get some consensus as to how we 

 can make them work. 



I do not know about the rest of my colleagues. I went home and 

 I said to my constituents that want these ITQ/IFQ programs, they 

 cost money to implement and the Federal Budget is in a deficit. If 

 you want these programs, you are going to have to find a way to 

 pay for them. And I think our fishermen are ready to find a way 

 to pay for them, but I do think the fees have to be fair. An auto- 

 matic 3 percent on the first sale for ITQ's/IFQ's is going to hit the 

 wrong people in my judgment. I would urge you to think that one 

 through. 



Dr. Baker. Senator, I appreciate your concerns there. We have 

 similar concerns and we would like to work with the committee to 

 try to find some way of having a system that is fair. I can say we 

 had to lay a proposal on the table so we had something to work 

 from, but it is our feeling we want to address exactly the problems 

 which you have just raised here. 



Senator Stevens. Well, why do we not get away from these fish- 

 ing fees and go to fishing licenses? Most of these vessels are inves- 

 tor owned, and I think that there ought to be some way to have 

 a Federal license for that boat to be involved in fishing in Federal 

 waters. That is much different than saying that you are going to 

 have a tax on the people earning a living. 



I feel the same way the chairman does about that. The bulk of 

 the tax you propose will fall on people who are crew of the vessels. 

 I am told Alaska will pay over 50 percent of the $70 million, and 

 of that more than one-half of the value is the value of the individ- 

 ual fish tickets that go to the individual deckhands. I do not think 

 that is fair. 



I think the boat owners ought to be paying for a license. If we 

 need more money, let us get a Federal fishing license. Have you 

 considered that? 



Dr. Baker. I do not know if that particular point has come or 

 not. But, as I say, we needed to lay a proposal on the table and 

 we are certainly willing to discuss a lot of different options about 

 how we could address the problem. 



Senator Stevens. Mr. Chairman, I think we ought to sort of 

 have a consensus meeting. Dr. Baker has got a real problem, if my 

 figures are right. He is more than $200 million short right now, be- 

 fore he starts. And there is just no way the committee is going to 



