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Mr. BULLARD. I'm not going to tackle it directly, Senator, but let 

 me point out one of the things that is going on right now within 

 the industry. And that is how do we achieve a shared vision? 



In mid-July, over a 3-day period, industry representatives from 

 Cape Hatteras to Maine got together to begin that process. I think 

 they are going to have a second session August 21 and 22, and they 

 will broaden participation in that to the environmental commu- 

 nities, the management councils, the National Marine Fisheries 

 Service, and others. It is a very difficult task. 



One of our expectations when we first started talking about this 

 is we might have a vision statement by July 1, That was an unreal- 

 istic expectation. Maybe July 1 of next year. But I hope that this 

 process will tackle the very complicated issues that you're raising 

 right now, such as limited entry and limited for whom and impact 

 on coastal communities. And as Frank said, "if you do it, you can 

 think that's the only thing you're doing." 



Senator Kerry. Well, yes. Bruce. 



Mr, Tarr. I want to take a crack at a couple things. 



No. 1, I think there's a difference between limited entry into the 

 fishery and limited access to the grounds. To some extent we have 

 limited entry presently because we do have a control data. 



And one of the major problems we've seen in these fisheries are 

 inactive permits. That is since the time of the original passage of 

 Magnuson, people were encouraged to get into this fishery for a va- 

 riety of reasons because we thought it was in the best interest of 

 our country. 



Now we have several more permits that are active. As those 

 begin to get weeded out by the economic factors, you'll see capacity 

 diminish. 



Senator Kerry. The minute the fisheries come back you do not 

 suddenly want a reemergence of the same level of effort. 



Mr. Tarr. There will be economic attrition. 



Senator Kerry. Correct. You want to grandfather those who may 

 stay in? 



Mr. Tarr. Once the permits have gone under amendment 5, to 

 a large extent they're gone, and we need to continue to look at that 

 and we need to maintain an active fishery. That may be a problem 

 in the long run, to let people get back in. Let's not consider that 

 for a moment. 



I think the second question that was raised by the Captain is one 

 of limited access to particular grounds. I think to get at that we 

 need to have a better understanding than we presently have of the 

 reproductive cycles of some of these fish. 



I'll give you an example. 



Amendment 5 groups 10 different species together. We know 

 from common sense, if nothing else, that those 10 species do not 

 have common reproductive cycles and don't have common growth 

 rate and don't have common habitat needs. We need to begin to un- 

 derstand those differences, and then look at a situation like if we 

 know they're spawning on Georges Bank, as we do, in spring, then 

 we need to look and begin limiting total access to that. Ii we maybe 

 make a statement that it's disruptive to run a dragger along the 

 bottom, then it's disruptive to have anything. 



Senator Kerry. Let me ask a question. 



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