32 



be minimum loss of income and no loss of jobs. A wholesale closure 

 basically costs people's job. I believe gradual is going to work. 



Senator Kerry. What if it will not? What if evidence shows it 

 will not? 



Captain Mirarchi. When that evidence is present we'll react ac- 

 cordingly. That evidence is not present presently. 



Senator Kerry. Let me now ask, I want to snift off this topic for 

 a moment and ask about the area of enforcement. 



One of the concerns that I am hearing from a number of fisher- 

 men is the failure of the enforcement system to catch and deal with 

 those who do cheat. It undercuts the vast majority of honest fisher- 

 men out there, and they are worried about protecting the resource. 

 You must have effective enforcement 



Where and in which fisheries are the biggest enforcement prob- 

 lems and how do we deal with it? Anybody on the panel want to 

 tackle that? 



Mr. Griffith. I can't answer your question about where. 



Members of the industry in Rhode Island have told me the solu- 

 tion to enforcement is to give NMFS the resources to do the things 

 it has legitimately been tasked to do, such as enforcement. Send 

 enforcement agents to sea. The way to stop the piracy is not to use 

 Coast Guard cutters, but to use fishing boats which are manned by 

 enforcement agents, disguised like an old "Q Boat" from World War 

 II, and that will stop it real quick. 



Senator Kerry. It is a source of need of resources for NMFS in 

 your mind? 



Mr. Griffith. Again, this is what industry folks have been tell- 

 ing me. 



Senator Kerry. Is there any fisherman here who wants to help 

 us out? 



Mr. Davidson. Mv name is Hans Davidson, and I'm the owner 

 and operator of a fisning vessel, scalloper out in New Bedford. 



If you think they can stop people from violating the Hague Line. 



Senator Kerry. Where is the greatest area of enforcement prob- 

 lem in your mind? 



Mr. Davidson. In scalloping it's the Hague Line. They've had 

 submarines and they haven't been able to stop it. They have. 



Senator Kerry. Stop who? 



Mr. Davidson. Stop Americans going into Canada. 



Senator Kerry, You are saying that Americans are crossing the 

 Hague Line and fishing? 



Mr. Davidson. Some. 



Senator Kerry. And how could one enforce that? How could that 

 be enforceable? 



Mr. Davidson. Renegotiate the Hague Line. 



Senator Kerry. I happen to agree with you. I never accepted the 

 Hague Line settlement as a legitimate one. I think the Reagan ad- 

 ministration created serious problems for us. That is history now. 



The question is generally speaking in enforcement, how can we 

 do a better job of enforcement that is fairer in your mind? Does it 

 require monitoring? Do we have to have people on the boats? I 

 have been hearing stories of fishermen, who, when the Coast 

 Guard comes up, they dump the catch over the opposite side. I 

 have talked to a lot of guys who told me stories of now they get 



