39 



eliminate overfishing in 5 to 7 years. Really we need to talk about 

 rebuilding stock. 



Second, that a number of folks have talked about the need for 

 additional resources, and you and others have mentioned that 

 under previous administrations more responsibilities have been 

 added and fewer resources given to fulfill those responsibilities. 

 And we're now living with the legacy of that. This administration, 

 for the first time in an era of cutting budgets and the pain that 

 that involves, is asking for additional resources, and the Congress 

 is working to provide that. 



Third, we believe that fishermen, and people with expertise, 

 should have a role, as was intended in the Magnuson Act. But we 

 recognize that the issue of conflict of interest is one that can erode 

 credibility. We've tried to suggest a very simple way to deal with 

 that by having the regional director, when requested, rule on 

 whether a representative of the council is in conflict, and to do it 

 in a way where that does not delay decisionmaking. 



Finally, to reiterate a point that you have made, that, in our po- 

 sition, we're asking for the ability of the Secretary to declare to the 

 council that a fishery is either overfished or about to be overfished, 

 and to give the council 1 year to come up with a plan to rectify 

 that. But if they fail to do that within 1 year to allow a Secretarial 

 action so that we do not just let time pass and pass and pass while 

 fishery resources dissipate. 



Senator Kerry. The issue of the scientific basis for management 

 has come up here, I would like to have someone address the ques- 

 tion of how we can guarantee a better inclusion of fishermen in the 

 process of gathering scientific data in a way that is sensible. 



If anybody has any thoughts in addressing that. 



Do you want to address that? Would you step up to the mike for 

 a minute, please? 



Captain, we'll get back to you. 



Ms. Erickson. Harriett Erickson. 



Senator Kerry. Captain, hang in there. Hang in. I want to have 

 you up there. I am trying to get this subject covered first. 



Ms. Erickson. The scientific data is the basis of the whole prob- 

 lem, and you're making decisions, as you say, at the council level, 

 and they have to have something to make it by. 



When you're starting with a premise that doesn't have really the 

 truths and facts in it, we come to decisions that do not do the job. 



Most of the rules we have right now in the U.S. fishery here in 

 the East, we've taken rights from Canada, we took it from the so- 

 cialist country, we put it here. It wasn't applicable, it didn't work. 



Now we come to problems with enforcement. Enforcement is a 

 problem. When the basic rules are not fair and equitable, they're 

 erroneous. It's got to turn into a police state. 



We have to have better scientific gathering of facts from the ves- 

 sels that are fishing. The problem with that now is when they call 

 up to put observers on the boats, a lot of people do not want to 

 have it because they come and ask the fisherman 'Tiow much fish 

 are you catching?" He said "I'm not doing too bad." They say 

 "you're catching too much. It's got to stop." They come and inter- 

 view you, "how much are you catching?" "We didn't do too good." 



