46 



Let me just ask before anybody leaves, any of you who went up 

 to the microphone to address the committee, I would simply ask 

 that you fill out a piece of paper or card up here with your name 

 and address on it for the official record so we can include that in 

 the official record of the proceedings. 



John Bullard. 



Mr. Bullard. I just want to say, picking up on Nelson's sugges- 

 tion, also some suggestions made by Captain Simonitsch, that's the 

 kind of ideas we hope to fund through the fishing industry grants. 

 I want to repeat I have applications here. There's a deadline of Au- 

 gust 22. Ideas that can have a general and longlasting benefit to 

 the industry as a whole, ones that involve research and develop- 

 ment that are beyond the ability of any single fisherman to carry 

 out is the kinds of things that we want to fund with this. 



Mr. Beideman. We need to start cutting loose on getting some 

 of the fishermen more involved in enforcement and observer jobs, 

 fishermen are just as trustful as any other sector of society. We 

 also need to get the fishermen involved closer in research with the 

 scientists, a Tot of good ideas will come directly out of the people 

 that spend their lives on the ocean. 



Senator Kerry. Mrs. Johnson, very quickly, wrap up here. 



Mr. Cyganowski. Can I please make a quick analogy? 



Senator Kerry. Just one second. 



Mrs. Johnson. Relative to your specific questions on enforce- 

 ment, as I think it was Mr. Griffith said, fishing vessels, one of the 

 things you can use boat buy-back for is to use them for enforce- 

 ment at sea, change them occasionally. Coast Guard cutters are 

 very noticeable. 



On the auctions, selling floors, sometimes boats come in, and if 

 you identify the fish and you see a bunch of really small fish and 

 it's all in one boat, perhaps it might be a really good idea to check 

 that boat out at sea. The vessel transmitters, as much as I don't 

 like them, they're going to be a very useful tool for enforcing the 

 Hague Line. 



Ajid one of the things at that fishermen did come up with, de- 

 spite due process problems when the Coast Guard or officers are 

 doing at sea enforcement, and I hope when you do get out there 

 and you find a flagrant violation, that is a net liner mesh that is 

 a one-half inch or whatever number below the legal, or one-half 

 mile inside a closed area, take the operator's license, take the ves- 

 sel's permit, the back side of that to try to get due process. They 

 need a hearing within 10 days, but that will send a very clear mes- 

 sage. 



One last thing, for the record, I respectfully add to your opinion 

 about how amendment 5 came to be, that it was also the 602 guide- 

 lines which held up the formulation of amendment 5. Thank you. 



Mr. Cyganowski. Senator. 



Senator Kerry. Yes, sir. Frank, can you make it fairly quick? 



Mr. Cyganowskl I'll make it very quick. 



People don't understand what it means, you know, discarding the 

 dead ones. The best analogy I can make for that is a chicken farm- 

 er, he's got a coop full of chickens, there's baby chicks, laying hens, 

 and there's old, what do you call them, fowl. He gets an order for 

 six chickens. He gets his double-barrel shotgun, and he fires blind- 



