45 



varieties because no one can afford the research and development 

 of the new products that we are going to need unless they are able 

 to receive compensation for their trouble. That is just a matter of 

 fact. 



So that is why we all come to the table now agreeing that there 

 has to be some changes. And some folks are going to be reluctant 

 to make those changes because some folks have been making some 

 pretty good money by doing that at the expense of everyone else, 

 and they have been breaking the law. So now we are trying to clar- 

 ify that. 



That was the source of my question, and maybe I am not even 

 asking the question correctly, but it is my understanding that the 

 only problem we really have today is between producers, not nec- 

 essarily baggers or treaters or what have you, because they are 

 usually checked by the State associations, et cetera, et cetera. And 

 if you are in the commercial business of selling you are not going 

 to be in business long if you are, in fact, breaking the law. That 

 is my understanding. 



I was probably stating the obvious, but I wanted to be sure that 

 there are not folks other than producers that perhaps we need to 

 be a little more diligent regarding the law or the enforcement 

 thereof. And you have answered me that that is not the case, if I 

 have understood you correctly. 



Mr. Volkmer. Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Stenholm. Mr. Volkmer. 



Mr. Volkmer. In that regard, I notice in the original statement, 

 Mr. Keeling, you mentioned something like 10 percent of produc- 

 tion would be one way of doing it. And I agree that that is just one 

 way of doing it, but are we talking there of the producer who has 

 to save seed, 10 percent of his production? 



Mr. Keeling. When we referred to the 10 percent, we were talk- 

 ing about the producer. But let me also say, in the spirit of fair 

 play and honesty and everything else, we are not wedded to 10 per- 

 cent. We want to generate something that is workable for the seed 

 companies as well as the producer, but it is difficult to define a sit- 

 uation. 



Mr. Volkmer. I agree, but I think we ought to try to tie it some- 

 where to the — I agree, to the producer that wants to sell the seed, 

 not to the person who wants to buy, not to the neighbor who wants 

 to buy it, but I think we ought to tie the limit to — we agree on 

 that? 



Mr. Keeling. Yes, sir. We are talking about protecting the pro- 

 ducers. 



Mr. Volkmer. The gentleman from Texas talks about the royal- 

 ties. I don't know, my farmers out there aren't going to be able to 

 tell you, I don't care what seed company it is, how much he is going 

 to have to pay in royalties to that seed company, and I don't know 

 how you are going to find out. 



Mr. Keeling. You would certainly have to work with them. They 

 have a system now for establishing and collecting royalties, and 

 you would have to weigh the difficulty of bringing that system to 

 bear on a diverse group of small farmers as opposed to would it be 

 worth it to the seed companies to collect it and all that. I can't tell 

 you that, but what I am saying is we are not opposed to the con- 



