46 



cept. It is not our goal to allow the guy to sell the seed to make 

 money. It is to allow him to move the seed if he ends up with it. 



Mr. Volkmer. I understand. In other words, he has an overage. 

 He saves some for himself, and then he finds out I have 5 bushels 

 left over. 



Mr. Keeling. It has been treated or something, and he can't use 

 it for 



Mr. Volkmer. It has been conditioned. 



Mr. Strouts. I am comfortable with that. If somebody has 1,000 

 bushels and he is moving 10 percent of it, that is only 100 bushels. 

 But if you go to western Kansas we have producers out there who 

 are harvesting 100,000 bushels. Now we are dumping 10,000 bush- 

 els of uncertified seed on the market. That gets to be a problem. 



Mr. Volkmer. I can understand that is a problem. 



Mr. Strouts. So the 10 percent, I don't know. 



Mr. Keeling. Mr. Volkmer, one of the reasons that we also 

 talked about the producer being required to notify the seed com- 

 pany was to create some responsibility on the producer's part and 

 also knowledge on the seed company's part so that it was an equi- 

 table situation. I mean, then the seed company is going to know 

 how much is being moved and when it is being moved. And if there 

 is any seed out there that is moving for which they have not been 

 notified, regardless of the amount, then that producer is in viola- 

 tion. So we believe it is equitable. It is responsible to both parties. 



Mr. Volkmer. If the producer notifies the seed company he is 

 going to sell so many bushels to such and such a person, I guess 

 the seed company could tell him, OK, you go ahead and sell it and 

 send us a check for $1,000 or $1,500 or $500 or whatever. 



Mr. Keeling. They could do that the way the law is written. 



What we are trying to set up is for the small amount of sales, 

 that that would be automatic that the company would have to 

 grant that licensure. 



Mr. Volkmer. Right, I understand that, but they could also say 

 you send us so much. 



M.r. Keeling. You could call the seed company and say, I want 

 to sell 100,000 bushels, and they could agree to help you do that. 



Mr. Volkmer. The seed company can always let you sell it all 

 at once. 



Mr. Stenholm. Mr. Schmidt. 



Mr. Schmidt. I would like to mention one thing. I think it is very 

 dangerous to use the word incidental sales in this legislation. As 

 you explained to the chairman, it is almost impossible to identify 

 what is an incidental sale. We all know what it is. That is why I 

 submit that it should be part of the report language and clarified 

 more for whenever this happens. 



I just want to cite an example. In celery seed — somebody men- 

 tioned that earlier. Celery seed is such a tiny seed that from 1 

 pound you can plant several hundred acres. So what means 10 per- 

 cent in one crop here may be nothing, but a lot for another crop. 



That is why I strongly recommend not to use the word incidental 

 sales in the actual PVP law. Thank you. 



Mr. Stenholm. In Mr. Reeling's testimony, when he talked 

 about the potential automatic licensing, is there a problem to the 

 breeder if you have a situation in which at any given time a pro- 



