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Mr. DeFazio. I am getting very bureaucratic answers. As a 

 human being and someone who lives in the United States, why 

 would you not say yes, I think if it is the most thorough possible 

 treatment to require heat treatment at the point of origin that it 

 would be a good idea for the U.S. to require that? Give me reasons 

 as a scientist, as an individual, however you can answer it. 



Ms. LORIMER. You have a risk identified and you have a tech- 

 nique to counteract the disease. 



Mr. DeFazio. Why would we do heat treatment in the United 

 States? Obviously, there is some risk or we would not require heat 

 treatments on this end. Why do we require heat treatment on this 

 end after a log — have you ever been at a log sort yard? 



Ms. LORIMER. No. 



Mr. DeFazio. No. Okay. Let me explain. In log sort yards, logs 

 look kind of alike and there is a lot of confusion, and these are not 

 exactly run by scientists. 



There is bark, dust, logs, everything all over the place. People 

 running back and forth with machines that pick them up and move 

 them around, and we have to process them. So we have to be sure 

 we have segregated these logs from other logs which are coming in 

 from other parts of the world or the United States, and they get 

 the heat treatment. And usually log sort yards are kind of located 

 in rural areas, so forests sometimes grow right up to the edge of 

 them. 



Now, are you familiar with cedar root rot? 



Ms. LORIMER. Yes. 



Mr. DeFazio. The Port Orford problem? 



Ms. LORIMER. Yes. 



Mr. DeFazio. We have somehow now decided it is some spore 

 that gets in mud and is spread by equipment; is that correct? Or 

 are you aware of that? It can be moved about and in mud. 



Ms. LORIMER. One of the features of the APHIS regulations miti- 

 gation requirements is that there is overlap. So before getting to 

 the sort yard, the logs have undergone extensive mitigation treat- 

 ments. The extra burning and heat treatments of the material after 

 it is here is just another safeguard, sir. 



Mr. DeFazio. It seems to me, then, I guess it is not necessary. 

 So we might as well dispose of that unnecessary expense and bur- 

 den on the people if there is no risk because of the methyl bromide 

 treatment and the visual inspection of one one-thousandth of 1 per- 

 cent of the logs coming in, then I guess we are really being — I am 

 more kind of being unreasonable here by requiring heat treatment 

 after we have moved the logs into a confusing situation in a sort 

 yard adjacent to the very resource we are trying to protect and re- 

 quiring segregation and sanitation and burning of sawdast and 

 those sorts of things. 



Ms. LORIMER. Extensive overlap of mitigation treatments is one 

 of the features of the APHIS regulations. 



Mr. DeFazio. You would make a great prisoner of war. 



Ms. LORIMER. I feel like one. 



Mr. DeFazio. That is a compliment. You come back to the script. 



Mr. Rains. Mr. DeFazio? 



Mr. DeFazio. Yes. 



