18 



Mr. Rose. Thank you, sir. 



Mr. DeFazio. I thank the Chairman. That is the point. If heat 

 treatment is necessary and desirable at any point in the process, 

 why not do it on the other end, and that question just cannot be 

 answered. There is certainly a risk that a log is going to get 

 missorted on this end, maybe even sent to the wrong yard. 



Scientists should go and visit sort yards to see it is not a precise 

 science to store and sort logs, because that is where your argument 

 kind of breaks down. I have been at a lot of sort yards. That is my 

 problem with this. 



I am not saying no imports. That would be the zero risk option, 

 except there is always risk, because other things are imported, 

 other nursery products, gypsy moths come on ships that do not 

 have wood products on them. I understand that. So we will never 

 get to zero risk in an international economy. 



And in this case I am not saying no log imports, but I am just 

 raising what has been to me sort of a practical question from the 

 beginning, why not do it to the highest possible standard and do 

 it on the other end, and I am glad to understand it is under consid- 

 eration. 



I thank the Chair and will not belabor this further and we will 

 hear from scientists on why it would be a good idea to do that a 

 little later. 



Mr. Rose. Let me, before I recognize — do you want to get in at 

 this point? Let me ask a couple of questions first and then I will 

 recognize Mr. Smith, an interested Member of the full committee 

 who has joined us today. 



Mr. Lee, these are fairly simple yes or no questions. And I am 

 not trying to be ugly, I am just trying to disabuse you of the idea 

 of long political answers, as we sometimes have to give. 



Do you agree that this country is being exposed, I could use the 

 word "invaded," but is being exposed to an ever higher rate of ex- 

 otic pests coming into this country from offshore? 



Mr. Lee. Yes. 



Mr. Rose. Could you talk for just a minute, not yes or no, about 

 how you view that increase in foreign pests? I mean in all of 

 APHIS, in all your jurisdiction. 



Mr. Lee. Yes. 



Mr. Rose. How has it increased over the last 10 to 20 years? And 

 in recent years. 



Mr. Lee. The number of passengers, foreign passengers coming 

 into the country; the number of aircraft, foreign-based aircraft 

 landing in the country; the volume of containerized cargo entering 

 the country; and the number of vessels coming to our ports all have 

 increased in the last five years. I do not have with me but I would 

 be happy to submit for the record the increase in interceptions we 

 have made. 



Mr. Rose. I know you are doing as much as you can with that, 

 and I am not — this is a friendly question, and Bo, on my staff, I 

 want you to get in touch with Dr. Lee's staff before they leave, I 

 would like to see that personally, the data on the increases in op- 

 portunities for foreign pathogens to enter this country. Your an- 

 swer to the first question was yes. 



[The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] 



