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about it. I am elected to represent both the industry, the people 

 who work in the industry, and people who live in these areas in 

 the forests and the forests of the Government and of private own- 

 ers, and I am just not sanguine about taking this risk and I still 

 do not understand the objection to a minuscule overseas invest- 

 ment in an unsophisticated facility to heat treat logs. 



We are not talking about rocket science. We are not even talking 

 about building automobiles like we do in Mexico. Now we are talk- 

 ing about putting logs in hot water for a certain period of time 

 until the core reaches a certain temperature. This is not a major 

 investment. This is not sophisticated. 



I am just amazed at the stonewalling I am getting from our as- 

 piring prisoner of war candidate and you on this issue. This is not 

 an unknown technology. I am not even saying let's look at a new 

 generation of technology in microwave or radiate the things. 



I am just saying let's look at big pools of warm water heated by, 

 good, you could use peat moss, coal, I don't care what you use to 

 heat the water. If they do not have electricity in these far away 

 lands they will have to put coal underneath them. I don't know. We 

 can get them the coal. We have lots of coal. 



So I do not understand the objection to treating on the other side 

 and eliminating this risk. And I particularly do not understand it 

 from your industry, because if anybody is going to get it stuck to 

 them, it is people who own those lands. Because I can see if we 

 incur some substantial costs, we are going to have to spread those 

 costs somewhere and the first place I will look is the beneficiaries, 

 not to people who live on suburban lots without harvestable trees. 



Mr. Berg. We rely on our entomologists and pathologists to ad- 

 vise us on these issues. 



Mr. DeFazio. What about these entomologists and pathologists 

 here? You named a number of categories of people that partici- 

 pated, but by the time you named three categories, according to 

 them, you had named half of each expert, widely diverse panel. But 

 six people, in closely held meetings, in secret, came up with these 

 regulations. 



You can laugh, but it was not subject to an open meeting law, 

 and this disturbs me. These people sat in a back room somewhere, 

 and your industry, or whoever influenced them, certainly had a lot 

 more access than people who had concerns on the other side. I have 

 seen this effort with this administration and past administrations. 

 Them that got, get more. They got access. They know when to be 

 there; they know how to get there and whose buttons to push. 



You clearly did not talk to other experts who have been involved 

 in this process in the past. This was not a straight deal. 



Mr. Berg. I was referring to our industry pathologists and ento- 

 mologists, not the public agencies. 



Mr. Rose. Well, thank you for your answers. 



Just in closing, I made a comment about a special effort within 

 USDA that we might authorize as separate legislation to put more 

 emphasis on exotic pests generally. You heard what I was talking 

 about. 



Dr. Cobb, do you have a comment on that? 



Mr. Cobb. I think that would be a very good idea. I think we 

 ought to really seriously look at it. Exactly what form it would 



