And our people rely on these fisheries for subsistence purposes 

 as well as for a small economic gain, you know, economic oppor- 

 tunity that is very rare in the villages. The management plans 

 should include clear and measurable definitions of overfishing and 

 measures to prevent overfishing. Recovery plans for the fisheries 

 should include time tables. 



The Chairman. You think that should be in the management 

 plan of the North Pacific Council 



Mr. NANENG. Yes. 



The Chairman [continuing]. Not in the Magnuson Act itself? 



Mr. Naneng. Well, not in the Magnuson Act, but one of the 

 things that should be considered as part of the issues to be ad- 

 dressed by the Magnuson Act. Right now, in light of the fact that 

 low fish returns have happened on the Yukon and the Kuskokwim, 

 it is going to take us 20 to 25 years to try and rebuild the stocks 

 that are depleted. And presently under the North Pacific fisheries 

 management plan, with the negotiations that we have had with the 

 Canadians, you know, there are a number of fish that are re- 

 quested to be returned to through the Yukon River up into Canada, 

 and our people on the lower river, lower Yukon, or even the middle 

 Yukon on the Alaska side, are requested not to fish those stocks 

 until those numbers of fish have returned to the habitats in Can- 

 ada. So, there are some severe restrictions that are being placed on 

 our people, and the burden of conservation is on our people and I 

 think it should be spread around throughout the whole system. 

 And it is not the burden of conservation on the fisheries that has 

 been imposed upon our people, we have also had to be — placed the 

 burden of conservation on waterfowl and other subsistence re- 

 source. So, there are two resources right now that have been placed 

 as burden of conservation on our people, the Yukon and 

 Kuskokwim Delta people. 



The Chairman. Well, now, are you properly represented, as you 

 see it, on the North Pacific Council? 



Mr. Naneng. I think that one of the things that needs to be ad- 

 dressed, and that is one of my recommendations, is that fishery 

 council members should not be allowed to vote on issues which 

 they have direct financial interests in. 



The Chairman. How do I handle that? I am supposed to know 

 what I am doing, and then when I know what I am doing, I have 

 an interest. We have had this problem in the Senate from time to 

 time. For example, I am chairman of the Senate Committee on 

 Transportation. I have an automobile, so I know something about 

 transportation. But, you would not disqualify me for voting on any- 

 thing about motor vehicles because I own a car. There has to be 

 some kind of balance. Which is the principle to be adhered to, the 

 expertise of the individual or the conflict of interest? 



You know, we could put the councils under the relevant criminal 

 provisions of Federal law. We have not. In fact, we have excluded 

 the councils from conflict-of-interest statutes because the objective 

 was to make sure that they knew what they were doing and how 

 to direct regional interests, not loading the council with a bunch of 

 southern yokels like myself, who would come all the way up here 

 to Alaska and tell you how to fish. 



