47 



Now, that is not in the same conservation vein that we have all 

 discussed, that I think Congress intended, and if any change would 

 be made in the act, I would certainly put conservation as a much 

 higher priority than short-term corporation gains. And that is not, 

 once again, the fault of the act. I think it is the way it is being in- 

 terpreted at the agency level. 



Some of the other issues that are, once again, more implementa- 

 tion than act itself is on the bycatch issue. The trawl industry has 

 had voluntary programs for controlling bycatch under the joint ven- 

 ture years that worked well. The foreign mother ships knew they 

 had to be cooperative in order to get quotas, so that if a boat was 

 not clean or did not want to participate in a voluntary program, the 

 boat did not have a market. 



Under the full Americanization now, we do not have that kind 

 of control. The National Marine Fishery's attorneys do not feel that 

 they can successfully enforce on a vessel-by-vessel level any kind 

 of a bycatch control, but we do have a program on the books ap- 

 proved by the Secretary, as yet to be enforced or there is yet to be 

 a successful court case on this. 



Industry very much wants the ability to enforce and require indi- 

 vidual responsibility. It is not an industry that has problems. It is 

 certain members of the industry that refuse to act in responsible 

 ways for the good of us all. 



And I assume I am very close to the end of my time. The last 

 issue that is constantly brought up is the conflict of interest. Quite 

 frankly, I think no one understands the industry like the industry 

 itself. The Alaska State fisheries are managed by an industry 

 board, the Alaska Board of Fish. It has been successfully managed 

 ever since statehood this way. 



The biggest difference is tnat we do have conflict-of-interest stat- 

 ute governing the procedures in the State board, which I think 

 Beth Stewart can address a little better because she has worked 

 with it more closely than I have. They work well. I would be horri- 

 fied to have nonindustry people there who saw their chance to try 

 out their pet theories on other peoples' incomes and lives. I think 

 we need an industry council as we have now. 



The Chairman. You characterize the North Pacific council as an 

 industry council now? 



Ms. Blackburn. A council of industry members, plus the re- 

 gional directors of the National Marine Fisheries Service and the 

 State directors of the department of fish and game, or however 

 they are called. Plus the Coast Guard enforcement there. They are 

 very active and contribute considerably. 



The Chairman. We are talking about the maximum net benefit 

 or the maximum corporate profit. Of course, conservation is fun- 

 damental to the success of the fisheries up here or anywhere. Yet, 

 there seems a move to get some additional representation for con- 

 servation interests. Would your testimony be that you do not think 

 such a change is in order? 



Ms. Blackburn. No, I do not think it is in order. When you have 

 something that is working and you can look out and say these 

 stocks are healthy, and some of them are recovering from abuses 

 during foreign days, it's not broke, you don't need to fix it. 



The Chairman. Do you think the councils work fast enough? 



