54 



The Chairman. But you see the problem, when you say the De- 

 partment of Commerce should lead. A minute ago you said Com- 

 merce should not lead. In other words, in most instances you want 

 Commerce to send plans back to the council and hope they come 

 up with a better recommendation which is not giving Commerce 

 the lead. Now with respect to bycatch, we have to lead. That is our 

 frustration as politicians trying to write laws. 



Mr. O'Leary. Well, maybe I misstated myself. I do not nec- 

 essarily mean "lead," but they must be receptive to those kinds of 

 policies, and if they are stated in the act strongly enough, then 

 they should not be fiddling with them. Most of the actions that we 

 are seeing right now from Commerce seem to be deluding the con- 

 servation aspects of some of the acts that are coming back from the 

 council. 



The Chairman. What about the relationship between the State 

 of Alaska, the National Marine Fisheries Service, and Coast 

 Guard? Could the relationship between Federal law and the State 

 law be improved at all? Ms. Blackburn, you look like you are ready 

 to answer. 



Ms. Blackburn. One of my favorite topics. Yes, it could be im- 

 proved and it needs to be improved on both sides. The State, of 

 course, is, like everybody else, underfunded now and has cut back 

 their funding on fish and game. They really do not have the people 

 to interface or help take part of the responsibility, which is one 

 thing I make lots of noise about in State. 



On the Federal level, there tends to be, I think not within Ko- 

 diak, I am saying National Marine Fisheries Service here in Ko- 

 diak works very closely with the State and it is like one big set of 

 biologists that we all work with the same ball, but when we get 

 down to Washington/Alaska Fisheries Center, where most of the 

 scientists are that serve the Alaska fishery from the Federal sys- 

 tem, there is too much distance and there is not the kind of close 

 working relationship between the State and Federal biologists that 

 I would like to see, and I think that even each of them would like 

 to see. 



The Chairman. Is there anything within the Magnuson Act that 

 we could provide to promote a better relationship? You think about 

 it and let me know. 



Ms. Blackburn. Let me think on it. My first answer is yes, move 

 the scientists that do research in Alaska to Alaska so they live 

 here. I do not see how you can effectively serve Alaska by coming 

 up here a couple of weeks or months a year and going back to Se- 

 attle. I really do not. 



The Chairman. That goes back to the testimony about user fees 

 being expended in the particular region in which they are collected. 

 Do we have the research facilities here in the North Pacific? 



Ms. Blackburn. Facilities here? 



The Chairman. Yes. I am going to collect all these user fees for 

 the region, but I do not believe I have the majority of the region's 

 research and expertise. 



Ms. Blackburn. The expertise is definitely here, Senator. We 

 have the University of Alaska. We have one of the most outstand- 

 ing Arctic research programs in the Nation through the University 

 of Alaska in Fairbanks. We have a National Marine Fisheries Serv- 



