100 



Senator Stevens. Do you think that is true under the Sitka- 

 block proposal also? 



Mr. Rauwolf. I believe it probably is. 



Senator Stevens. Well, how could it be the shares cannot be 

 traded between vessel size classes under the current plan, and the 

 block proposal will further restruct transfers even within a vessel 

 size class? It seems that the block concept at least has the potential 

 to prevent consolidation. 



Mr. Rauwolf. Well, if that is the fact, if that is the case, then 

 you would not have that problem. That is true. 



Senator Stevens. OK. 



The Chairman. Well, let me go back, not to the bycatch problem, 

 but just the overcall catch problem. As Mr. Leigh ton, I think, 

 said — "now, wait a minute here. We are stuck with the Magnuson 

 Act system. And on the one hand, the President has pledged to en- 

 sure U.S. fishermen's rights, and on the other hand the President 

 does not have the authority that the council does. At the same 

 time, I read in the newspaper somewhere on July 2 you had a 

 catch of 2 million salmon. Obviously, you are getting tremendous 

 catches 15, 16 years after the enactment of the Magnuson Act it- 

 self." 



What about the targeted catch? Should there be any restrictions 

 other than the time and the season? Ms. Pagels, do you have a 

 view on that? 



Ms. Pagels. I am not quite sure I exactly 



The Chairman. Well, the problem, it appears to me, other than 

 the bycatch, just is overfishing 



Ms. Pagels. Right. 



The Chairman [continuing]. If you can catch 2 million pounds in 

 1 day. 



Senator Stevens. Well, we do have some limits on target species, 

 Senator. 



The Chairman. You do? 



Senator Stevens. We have State management limitations as well 

 as salmon treaty limits under our agreement with Canada. The 

 treaty affects southeast Alaska very strongly. 



The Chairman. Well, let us see what Mr. Leighton says. 



Senator Stevens. Well, let us have Ms. Pagels 



Ms. Pagels. You asked me a question, and I can answer that. 



The Chairman. All right. 



Ms. Pagels. The whole problem with overfishing is it is kind of 

 an amorphous blob. And you have to look at each fishery and de- 

 cide. Of course, each fishery has their own fishing level. So, to con- 

 trol it I would say the best way, when you look at it, is like in the 

 North Pacific we have a cap in the Bering Sea. That cap was arbi- 

 trarily picked. It is not really based on size. It is just says so many 

 metric tons. And hopefully we will maintain the status of the stock. 

 But I would prefer to 



Senator Stevens. Well, but didn't that cap reduce the catch sig- 

 nificantly? 



Ms. Pagels. I am sorry. 



Senator Stevens. That significantly reduced what the foreign 

 vessels were taking. They were taking too 



Ms. Pagels. Correct. Correct. 



