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reaches that 750 metric tons, you are shut down from fishing. They 

 have it on rock fish. That is six different species, I believe. 



They are going to eliminate that. Once you eliminate it, there is 

 no — nothing to stop some of the fishermen from going out there 

 and targeting and discarding the smaller fish and keeping the big 

 ones. Right now you are supposed to keep track of every halibut 

 that you bring aboard and whether you were targeting halibut or 

 another species. They are not going to have any idea of how much 

 mortality there is going to be once they eliminate the TAC. That 

 is not conservation minded. Enforcement is going to be nonexistent. 



The Chairman. Does anybody on the panel want to comment 

 about that? Yes, Mr. Coburn. 



Mr. Coburn. Well, I might be off the subject a little bit, but I 

 do not know if you are aware of Canada's — I call it "sea grab." On 

 the east coast they set their boundaries to include the Grand Bank 

 up there, which took about three-fourths of it for Canada and left 

 the United States with one-quarter of it. Maybe Ted is familiar 

 with that. 



Now, here the Straits of San Juan De Fuca I have done quite a 

 bit of halibut fishing down there. It goes — makes it way between — 

 oh, we call it Cape Flattery and Victoria, right down the Straits of 

 San Juan De Fuca. As soon as they hit the open ocean, their line 

 extends southwest. Southwest the 200-mile zone — I have fished 

 there — puts it right outside of Astoria, OR. 



So, there are two instances of where they have grabbed bound- 

 aries. And I do not know who to blame for this. Who goes along 

 with it? Our State Department, are they more powerful than us 

 when it comes to setting a boundary line? And now we are on the 

 last one right out here; Cape Chacon to Cape Muzon. 



But they grab everything they can get their mitts on. And they 

 really look out for their own fishermen by acquiring territory. And 

 they are still in the process of doing it. 



Arid that is all I have to say. 



The Chairman. Very good, sir. 



Senator Stevens. No, we had a discussion on CDQ's, and I am 

 interested in your position on CDQ's, all of you. You do not have 

 CDQ's down here, do you? I think you should watch those, though, 

 because as my assistant points out, the participating factory trawl- 

 ers have been willing to pay for the right to catch that allocation. 

 And they have been willing to increase the observers and pay for 

 them. And they have been willing to have a means of weighing or 

 determining the volume of catch. Now, if all three of those can be 

 done and still stay within the bottom line of those few factory 

 trawlers dealing with CDQ's, I do not know why all of them cannot 

 do the same thing. 



And I think — Mr. Rauwolf, I think you make a good suggestion 

 that we should try to reword clean operators. I am hearing more 

 and more from people from all over the State who say they would 

 accept the concept of licenses or full public identification in order 

 to know who is entering these places and what their targeted spe- 

 cies are and how much bycatch they are catching. 



And I do think that the council ought out to consider that. Then 

 if there is a sanction, you cannot fish. I think that we ought to 

 have some basic means of sanctions that is substantial. And if 



