163 



There is no secret about this list in the sense that there is ade- 

 quate opportunity for government employees with proper back- 

 grounds to review this list. And I am simply saying that your sug- 

 gestion that there is something on a list that is not approved for 

 food, that in itself is no indictment that there is anything wrong 

 with that particular ingredient. 



Mr. Wyden. I have looked at the list and there are things on 

 that list that are so toxic you can't put them in landfills, and they 

 are very serious ingredients, and I guess you want to wash your 

 hands of your responsibility to the consumers of this country by 

 saying maybe somebody else in government ought to take a look. 

 But I want you to know that I think that is a breach of responsibil- 

 ity to your consumers, and it seems to me that if the industry had 

 nothing to hide, which has been at the heart of your arguments to 

 this Congress now for many years, you would be willing to put it 

 out. But you are not. 



You are willing to really, as far as I can tell, go to great lengths 

 to kind of keep it out of the public's view; and I think that is unfor- 

 tunate. 



ABC reported 



Mr. Spears. Could I just say one other thing? 



Mr. Wyden. My time is short and you have already told me that 

 you are not interested in the public getting the information. 



Dr. Spears, the ABC program Day One recently reported that 

 some tobacco companies use a substance called nicotine sulphate. 

 Is that a toxic compound? 



Mr. Spears. Nicotine sulphate is a salt of nicotine. 



Mr. Wyden. Is it toxic? 



Mr. Spears. At what concentration? 



Mr. Wyden. Again, I would like to hear from you whether or not 

 you all use that kind of ingredient and whether or not it is toxic? 

 Do you use nicotine sulphate? 



Mr. Spears. We do not use nicotine sulphate. 



Mr. Wyden. Not in any quantity? 



Mr. Spears. I would say this, however, that I believe that the de- 

 naturing agent in the SDA-4 alcohol may be nicotine sulphate. 



Mr. Wyden. So you may use nicotine sulphate? 



Mr. Spears. It may be. As I have already disclosed to you and 

 mentioned to you, the fact that we use denatured alcohol and the 

 amount of nicotine or nicotine sulphate in denatured alcohol would 

 be insignificant and trivial. 



Mr. W^yden. Mr. Chairman, I know my time has expired, but 

 why would a company use a substance like this in manufacturing 

 cigarettes? 



Mr. Spears. I don't know, and I don't think you can get an intel- 

 ligent answer until someone raises the question with the company 

 that may have reported nicotine sulphate. 



Mr. Wyden. You told me it may be used in your cigarettes. That 

 is what you just told me. 



Mr. Spears. What I told you was that we use SDA-4 alcohol, and 

 that the denaturing agent is nicotine. And nicotine sulphate is the 

 same as nicotine; it is a salt. 



Mr. Wyden. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired, but nicotine 

 sulphate has been characterized by the Centers for Disease Control 



