621 



Mr. TiSCH. We have looked at the data, and the data that we 

 have been able to see has all been statistical data that has not con- 

 vinced me that smoking causes death. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Campbell, you were also deposed. And you 

 said, quote, "To my knowledge it has not been proven that cigarette 

 smoking causes cancer." This is a rather passive and puzzling ap- 

 proach, especially in light of the consensus not by some but all of 

 the scientific community. Will you ever be convinced? W^hat evi- 

 dence are you waiting for? And let's have the microphone passed 

 over. 



Mr. Campbell. Yes, I may be convinced. We don't know what 

 causes cancer, in general, right now, so I think that we may find 

 out what causes cancer, and we may find out some relationship, 

 which has yet to be proven. 



Mr. Waxman. I must say, this is rather a passive approach. Don't 

 you feel you have an obligation, the same obligation that every 

 other consumer company has to determine whether you are causing 

 harm, and to take steps to minimize that harm? You are not meet- 

 ing that responsibility. 



And it's clear your views on the health impact of cigarettes are 

 out of step with the overwhelming scientific evidence. If all the 

 medical people, who don't work for you, say it causes cancer, what 

 more do you need to understand that that is the case, and accept 

 it, and then try to v/ork constructively to try to see if we can avoid 

 that terrible tragedy to so many people? 



Mr. Campbell. Is there a question. Sir? 



Mr. Waxman. That's the question. 



Mr. Campbell. I'm sorry, it was too long for me to 



Mr. Waxman. Well, I think the point I'm making is that all of 

 you have some responsibility not simply to say you don't know, 

 even when the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence is 

 against you. I think you have an obligation to know. In my view, 

 at the center of the entire debate over tobacco is nicotine. This in- 

 gredient in tobacco has an enormous impact on humans. 



At our last hearing, Mr. Spears told the subcommittee that nico- 

 tine is an important flavor. In contrast, Dr. Kessler said the taste 

 of nicotine is actually bitter, and can be replicated through the ad- 

 dition of pepper. Dr. Kessler also told the subcommittee that he 

 was unaware of any purpose for the inclusion of nicotine in a to- 

 bacco product except for it's addictive effect. Yet Mr. Spears in- 

 sisted to the subcommittee that nicotine was a flavor. 



I want to cite, at this point, a document entitled, "Tobacco Fla- 

 voring for Smoking Products." The document was published by the 

 RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company in 1972. The document lists hun- 

 dreds of potential flavorings for tobacco, and rates them for smoke 

 taste and smoke aroma. But neither nicotine nor nicotine sulphate 

 is listed as an additive. Am I missing something, Mr. Johnston? 

 This is RJ Reynolds. Why wasn't nicotine listed as a tobacco flavor- 

 ing? Or do you disagree with Mr. Spears? 



Mr. James Johnston. I would want to see the document, but I 

 think I can give you the general answer to that. Nicotine is the 

 natural component of tobacco leaf, and therefore would not be an 

 added ingredient. Nicotine sulphate, as everyone here has testified. 



