662 



Mr. Wyden. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think what is really striking 

 is that the people who have no vested financial interest in this par- 

 ticular subject say that nicotine is addictive. And the people who 

 have a vested financial interest in saying otherwise argue that it's 

 not. Now, I could keep going on. 



I note that the National Institute on Drug Abuse has said that 

 nicotine is as addictive as heroine. They have indicated that it is 

 like 5 to 10 times more potent than cocaine or morphine, in terms 

 of producing effects on mood and behavior. 



I have found it very interesting in listening to the testimony that 

 we have heard already today, all of you are comparing cigarettes 

 to traffic accidents, and television, and coffee, and soft drinks. 



I don't know anybody who charged that cigarette are causing 

 traffic accidents. I don't know anybody that's proved that coffee has 

 caused cancer. But what we do know is that the preponderance of 

 medical experts in our country say that nicotine is addicting, and 

 that there is solid indisputable proof that smoking causes lung can- 

 cer. 



I'm just struck by how, when the chairman and other experts 

 pile up this mountain of evidence, report after report, the Surgeon 

 General, the American Medical Association, the World Health Or- 

 ganization, report after report, after report, after report, your com- 

 panies, who have a vested financial interest in saying otherwise, 

 are the only folks who make the contention, that is contradicted 

 even by your customers, that smoking is not addictive. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Wyden, if you will yield to me. I just also want 

 to remark on the fact that this woman is the director of research 

 for Philip Morris, and this is a fundamental question, I would 

 think, for the tobacco industry, whether their product is addictive, 

 but you have reached the conclusion it isn't. 



You will have to do research to find out if there is any other rep- 

 utable organization, but you would think that if there were, you 

 would know it. But we will keep the record open. And we specifi- 

 cally want you to submit to us your research data that indicates 

 that this is not addicting. 



Mr. Campbell. Could I enter a quote, sir, on the topic of addic- 

 tion? 



Mr. Waxman. Yes, Mr. Campbell? 



Mr. Campbell. Could I enter a quote, Mr. Chairman, from an 

 eminent person, with respect to addiction? 



Mr. Waxman. Before we do that, I would like for you to submit 

 your research data to us on this addiction question. 



Mr. Campbell. We said that we would submit data on addiction 

 experts that agree with Dr. Ellis' position. 



Mr. Waxman. But I think we should have for the record your re- 

 search data showing it's not addictive. 



Mr. Campbell. I'm — we have 



Mr. Waxman. Let me ask it this way. I want from you any re- 

 search that you have showing it's not addictive, and I also want 

 any research data from you that shows it is addictive. Will you 

 agree to submit that to us? 



Mr. Campbell. I see no problem supplying material. We'll get 

 the appropriate people together from our side with the appropriate 

 people from your side, and see how it can be handed over. 



