663 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you. 



Mr. Synar, I promised Mr. McMillan that he would be next, and 

 that we'd let Mr. Wyden go on a little longer. So if you would per- 

 mit, I'm going to go vote. We'll assume he's on his way, we'll give 

 him another 5 minutes. 



[Brief recess.] 



Mr. Synar [presiding]. The subcommittee will come back to 

 order. Mr. McMillan is recognized for 10 minutes. 



Mr. McMillan. I thank the Chair. I think that Mr. Jim Johnston 

 in his opening statement characterized the nature of what we're 

 here for. The real motive behind most of this is a ban on the use 

 of tobacco and not a whole host of other things that are being as- 

 serted. On CNN last night, the gentleman from Oregon, on CNN 

 last night, said that he was not interested in banning tobacco, but 

 my perception is that the contrary is true and I do not think we 

 should approach it that way. 



If we're going to abide by the chairman's opening statement, then 

 the same standards that we apply to tobacco should be applied to 

 other products. I think that's been suggested here today in a num- 

 ber of ways, including a wide range of products — alcohol, caffeine 

 content products, sugar content products, fat content products — we 

 could go on down that list. 



I think it's important to be candid in what we are talking about. 

 I've smoked in the past. I've used alcohol in the past. Nicotine, I 

 think, is essential to the use of tobacco. Alcohol is essential to the 

 use of alcoholic products. I drink coffee. I don't like it if it doesn't 

 have caffeine in it. I like candy. I don't think I'd like it if it didn't 

 have chocolate or sugar. 



The question is how do we deal with the fact that use to excess 

 or misuse of certain products may be harmful in one way or an- 

 other. They can be harmful physically. They can be harmful psy- 

 chologically. They can modify behavior. 



Somehow or another, in all this, we don't seem to be applying 

 any commonly accepted standards with respect to similar products 

 and I don't know how to deal with this issue rationally unless we 

 do. 



My first question has to do witH the much ballyhooed list, the so- 

 called secret list that became public. Why was nicotine not included 

 on the list of 600 items that were disclosed? Anyone can answer. 



Mr. James Johnston. Congressman, it's because nicotine is the 

 natural component of the tobacco leaf. Nicotine sulfate was on the 

 list. It's present because it is required to be there by the BATF. It's 

 in minuscule quantities. 



This cup, if poured into a 3,000 gallon swimming pool, would rep- 

 resent how much nicotine is present in that nicotine sulfate. It 

 can't even be measured. And it's required to be there by the BATF. 



Mr. McMillan. We don't require a secret list of the 30 to 40-plus 

 additives that go into a bottle of gin in excess of alcohol, do we? 

 Over and beyond alcohol. Most of us don't even know what they 

 are. 



Mr. James Johnston. The ingredients released by these manu- 

 facturers yesterday goes far beyond what has ever been provided 

 by any manufacturer of food products. They're not required to dis- 

 close processing agents. We have supplied those data to the U.S. 



