695 



Mr. Bryant. I will just have to say no medical experts agree with 

 your assessment or comparison of sugar and nicotine. None, none 

 whatsoever. There is a stack of books that say you are wrong or 

 that you are stating something you do not believe, one way or the 

 other. 



Do you think the Schick Clinics and the people who sell patches 

 and all who are trying to help people escape from this addiction are 

 operating a fraudulent enterprise? 



Mr. James Johnston. No, Congressman, I do not. But for you to 

 sit here and tell me that my mother's life is not at stake is wrong, 

 as well. 



Mr. Bryant. No one in this room heard me say that. You did not 

 hear me say that either. You are evading my question. Do you 

 think that Schick and these people who are trying to provide peo- 

 ple with medically-approved means of getting away from your prod- 

 uct are running a fraudulent operation? 



Mr. James Johnston. For some smokers, it may make a dif- 

 ference. The success rates, as I understand them, with stop smok- 

 ing clinics and with patches and the nicotine gum and so forth is 

 somewhere, I believe, and this is speculation, not a fact, but my un- 

 derstanding is around 25 percent. So for some people, it is an aid 

 to support their decision. 



Mr. Bryant. So for some people, perhaps it is addicting. Would 

 you agree? 



Mr. James Johnston. Any one of those clinics will tell you when 

 you walk in the door if you aren't committed, if you haven't really 

 made the decision to quit, you will not quit. 



Mr. Bryant. But would you agree that for those 25 percent of 

 the people, they are addicted to nicotine? 



Mr. James Johnston. I'm sorry, Congressman. 



Mr. Bryant. You acknowledge 25 percent of the people are aided 

 in quitting by those clinics. Would you agree that those people are 

 addicted to nicotine? 



Mr. James Johnston. No, sir. No, Congressman. 



Mr. Bryant. Then what good does a patch that puts nicotine into 

 their body do them? 



Mr. James Johnston. Pardon me7 



Mr. Bryant. What is the effect of the patch that gives them nico- 

 tine? 



Mr. James Johnston. What is the 



Mr. Bryant. What is the effect of the treatment if they are not 

 addicted? 



Mr. James Johnston. What is the — I'm sorry. Congressman. 



Mr. Bryant. If they are weaned from their habit with a nicotine 

 delivery system, then how can you say that nicotine was not in- 

 volved in their inability to stop smoking? 



Mr. James Johnston. Nicotine provides pleasure. It provides en- 

 joyment. 



Mr. Bryant. Let us move on to something else. 



Mr. Waxman. Before you do move on, do you believe that nicotine 

 administered through a patch is pleasurable? 



Mr. James Johnston. I dont know. It has a mild pharma- 

 cological effect. Those products are marketed as a drug. And the 

 reason — this is very important, Mr. Chairman. The reason that 



