702 



Mr. Kreidler. Your chart shows a continuing decrease in nico- 

 tine levels after 1982, but the Surgeon CJeneral's chart shows — if 

 we could bring up Philip Morris Chart Number 2 in lieu of that 

 Surgeon General's chart. We have the exhibit. We didn't have a 

 poster. So the public can see the exhibits being passed out. 



But the Surgeon General's chart shows-— or, I should say, Philip 

 Morris here — shows an increase in nicotine levels. For instance, the 

 Surgeon General's chart shows a significant increase in nicotine 

 yields in 1985. This is not reflected in your chart at all. In fact, 

 your chart shows a decrease from 1984 to 1985. 



A look at the FTC data upon which the Surgeon General's chart 

 is based is very revealing. If you could, pull out the chart and post- 

 er showing this data for a moment. According to the FTC data, 

 there is a clear increase in nicotine levels in 1985 and again in 

 1987. The increase is reflected in the Surgeon General's chart, but 

 not in your chart. 



Mr. Spears, is it possible for you to make a mistake in represent- 

 ing the Surgeon General's chart as a basis of your chart before this 

 subcommittee? 



Mr. Spears. I'd like to say a few things about this. Obviously, 

 there is a lot of confusion. Let me say, number one, what I rep- 

 resented to you was not the very minute detail that you're now 

 talking about, but the fact that tar and nicotine decreased through 

 the period 1950's to the present in a parallel fashion. 



Mr. Kreidler. Dr. Spears, these are the numbers from 1982 to 

 1990. These are the raw data numbers. Did you look from 1982 

 going down through 1990 — does that show a decrease or does that 

 show an increase? 



Mr. Spears. May I finish? 



Mr. Kreidler. Proceed. 



Mr. Waxman. Just a minute. You're entitled to have an answer 

 to your question. 



Mr. Kreidler. I'm curious. This is the hard data for that 10-year 

 period right now. It's the raw data. Does that show a decrease? 

 Your chart showed it decreasing. This is the raw data. Are those 

 numbers showing a decrease or actually an increase? I think it's 

 hard to say that those represent a decrease. They are, in fact, an 

 increase. 



Mr. Spears. It's hard to say it represents an increase. 



Mr. Kreidler. But your chart 



Mr. Spears. Just a minute. I am not prepared to say that these 

 are the correct data that you're showing me. We have gone back 

 and I have recalculated a lot of this data in view of seeing Dr. 

 Kessler's charts, which alleged significant increases in nicotine and 

 flat levels of tar. 



Mr. Kreidler. I would argue and put forward to you that 



Mr. Spears. No. What he showed 



Mr. Kreidler. We're talking about FTC data that— this isn't 

 something that's been manipulated by somebody else. This is FTC 

 data. If you want to take a look at it and get confirmation, I pre- 

 sume that when you submitted the data that you had had a chance 

 to review it when you presented it to the committee the first time. 

 But this is the hard data from FTC. 



