703 



Mr. Spears. It's not the hard data from FTC. What it is is FTC 

 data, sales weighted by reports on the sale of the cigarettes. 



Mr. Kreidler. Which is the same data that you were using, cor- 

 rect? 



Mr. Spears. And you have to do it correctly. I do not believe that 

 Dr. Kessler's work was correct and I said this caused us to go back 

 and look at recalculation of these figures. I cannot confirm Dr. 

 Kessler's graphs. 



Mr. Kreidler. But you still argue at this point and you'd still 

 submit to the committee that the nicotine levels are decreasing, 

 specifically over this last 10 to 15-year period. 



Mr. Spears. I did not make that as a profound statement. I made 

 a 



Mr. Kreidler. You submitted data that would lead us to that 

 conclusion. 



Mr. Spears. The statement was that nicotine follows tar from the 

 period 1950's to 1990. I stick with that statement and I believe it 

 is accurate. We've gone back and rechecked the calculations. 



Mr. Kreidler. You submitted it as the Surgeon General's chart. 



Mr. Spears. Now, if you wanted to 



Mr. Kreidler. Excuse me. Dr. Spears, but you submitted this as 

 a Surgeon General's chart. Is it or is it not the Surgeon General's 

 chart? 



Mr. Spears. This chart came from the Surgeon General's report 

 that was identified, yes. 



Mr. Kreidler. Was it presented accurately? Why does it — for the 

 last 10-year period, why does your chart show that the levels are 

 decreasing when, in fact, the data shows us they're increasing? 



Mr. Spears. It looks to me like 



Mr. Kreidler. And the Surgeon General's chart also shows that. 



Mr. Spears. It looks to me like my chart might show a 10 per- 

 cent decrease. But the data you put up there might show a zero 

 or certainly much less than a 10 percent increase and the Re5Tiolds 

 picture shows that it's slightly decreasing or flat. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Kreidler, your time has expired. 



Mr. Kreidler. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. You may want to catch that vote. The Chair will 

 recognize himself for the next round of questioning. I have in front 

 of me a copy of — Mr. Spears, you might want to stay there. I have 

 a copy of a 1981 report written by Mr. Alexander W. Spears, the 

 vice chairman of Lorillard. Without objection, it will be entered in 

 the record as Exhibit 12. 



[Testimony resumes on p. 715.] 



[Exhibit 12 follows:] 



