720 



they smoke in Oklahoma or the Winston they smoke in North 

 Carolina. 



Further, our tar and nicotine numbers are in every advertise- 

 ment and we have tried to 



Mr. Waxman. You're going through all your protestations, but 

 you have a spokesman from your company who made a statement. 

 You're saying he was incorrect in his statement. Now, we know 

 that — we know from Dr. Spears that if you adjust the level of tar, 

 it might not change — it generally changes the level of nicotine, but 

 that can be changed through blending. You don't disagree with 

 that, do you? 



Mr. James Johnston. I don't disagree with that whatsoever. 



Mr. Waxman. You do disagree, however, with your own spokes- 

 man from your company that says that the consumer wants this 

 level consistent and, therefore, they blend to reach that consistent 

 level. 



Mr. James Johnston. Mr. Chairman, I don't even know the con- 

 text of his remarks. I might look at them in context and come back 

 and tell you I precisely agree with him. It can be one sentence that 

 I wasn't there to hear. I'm telling you that as you read it to me, 

 Mr. Chairman, I do disagree with it. 



Our customers, our smokers want Winston to taste like Winston 

 yesterday, today and tomorrow, as any consumer products manu- 

 facturer would do, and we want to comply with the law. Our adver- 

 tisement has our tar and nicotine level in it. We file it with the 

 FTC and we are obligated to do our best to deliver precisely that. 



Mr. Waxman. Let me read to you precisely what Mr. Suber, the 

 representative from RJR Tobacco Company, said. "In order to de- 

 liver to the consumer a product that he wants, a consistent level 

 of nicotine, we have to blend the tobaccos accordingly. So we do 

 control it. We have advertising that states what the level of nico- 

 tine is and the level of tar. Therefore, we have to control this. Oth- 

 erwise, we're in violation of advertising regulations." 



Do you agree with that statement now that you've 



Mr. James Johnston. I agree with everything that is in that 

 quote with the exception that the consumer wants a consistent 

 level of nicotine. In fact, what happens in a natural agricultural 

 product is that there are crop-to-crop variations. There are round- 

 ing. We're dealing with such small numbers here that in our lowest 

 tar products, a one-tenth milligram rounding, and we are required 

 by the FTC to round, can change the number by 50 percent and 

 actually you've only changed the number by 1 percent. 



Mr. Waxman. When you control the level for tar, does nicotine 

 go along with it? 



Mr. James Johnston. In a rough proportion. It is not a direct 

 proportion because filters are slightly more effective at reducing 

 particulate matter than they are vapor matter. Nicotine comes 

 through in both foi-ms. More of it is filtered out in the particulate 

 form, but less in the vapor form. So it's not 



Mr. Waxman. So if you're trying to get a consistent level of nico- 

 tine and they don't go precisely together, you have to adjust nico- 

 tine levels separately, don't you? 



Mr. James Johnston. No. No. 



Mr. Waxivian. You haven't told Mr. Suber that. 



