746 



Mr. Synar. So Ms. Laura Sandefur from Tulsa, Okla. is lying. 



Mr. James Johnston. No. I'm not going to go around making un- 

 substantiated allegations. She could be wrong. That doesn't make 

 her a liar. She could be wrong. She may have seen a sign that said 

 "Buy one, get one free." That's probably what she saw. 



Mr. Synar. Mr. Johnston, I can tell you I've been in a Quick Trip 

 or two over the last 2 weeks as I've travelled through my district 

 and she's telling the truth, because I saw those cigarettes laying 

 out. 



Mr. James Johnston. Congressman, I will investigate this im- 

 mediately and I will submit for the record what we found and what 

 action we have taken, if our company is involved in any way. That 

 is unacceptable to us, if that's true. 



Mr. Campbell. You have the same commitment from me. Con- 

 gressman Synar. That is unacceptable to us and if our sales force 

 is involved in any way, they will be suitably reprimanded. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Synar, your time has expired. Mr. McMillan. 



Mr. McMillan. I would just comment. If the ad with Joe Camel 

 in Joe's Place was designed to appeal to young, then both the bar 

 and the advertising were poorly targeted because people under 18 

 aren't allowed in the bar nor are they allowed to purchase ciga- 

 rettes. It doesn't seem to make much sense. 



Mr. James Johnston. That's correct. 



Mr. McMillan. Is nicotine produced and put into product in 

 amounts in excess of that found in tobacco for any other reason or 

 in any other product that you're aware of? 



Mr. Campbell. Any one of us? 



Mr. McMillan. Yes. 



Mr. Campbell. Absolutely not. 



Mr. McMillan. I don't mean the tobacco companies doing it. I 

 mean is it out there in the marketplace for any other purpose. 



Mr. Campbell. It's available in nicotine gums and in the patch, 

 which is a pharmaceutical application. 



Mr. McMillan. That's the prescription use of nicotine. 



Mr. James Johnston. And it's found, Mr. Congressman, nicotine 

 is found naturally in tomatoes and eggplant and a number of other 

 vegetables in very low amounts. 



Mr. McMillan. I think some of the parallels here when we talk 

 about common standards are interesting when we start looking 

 into the area of caffeine or alcohol, especially. We have alcohol sold 

 in this country with widely varying amounts, which I presume are 

 deliberately determined and formulated into the product, to the 

 point where in the labeling of the product, it's rather precisely stat- 

 ed, either in terms of percentages of proof and, yet, we don't con- 

 sider alcohol to be an addictive drug and it's not treated as such. 



It strikes me as somewhat unusual that we're trying to apply 

 standards to tobacco, with a product that perhaps is potentially far 

 less threatening physically, psychologically and behaviorally than, 

 say, alcohol. 



I've missed some of the testimony here having to do with at- 

 tempts to define what is addictiveness and so forth. Is there a pre- 

 cise science, in your view, in which this committee could address 

 the question of addictiveness or call it something less that can be 



