763 



Mr. Bryant. I am just asking you. If you say it is 40 percent, 

 then let us talk about 40 percent. With regard to that 40 percent 

 of the cigarette that is leaf tobacco, do you use a tobacco blend with 

 a higher concentration of nicotine in Ultima than you use in Merit 

 filters? 



Mr. Campbell. Yes, but it's irrelevant in terms of what the 

 smoker gets in the end, because we use other tobaccos with lower 

 nicotine to counteract that. 



Mr. Bryant. Mr. Sandefur, let me ask you a question about the 

 Barclay cigarette that Brown & Williamson makes. I think Barclay 

 is marketed as a low tar cigarette, is that right? 



Mr. Sandefur. Yes. It's marketed as an ultra-low tar cigarette, 

 as agreed to by FTC and Federal Court. 



Mr, Bryant. I understand that the nicotine content of the to- 

 bacco used in Barclay cigarettes is 2.3 percent or higher. Is that 

 correct? 



Mr. Sandefur. 3.3 percent or higher. 



Mr. Bryant. 2.3 percent or higher. 



Mr. RiEHL. That certainly sounds high to me. 



Mr. Bryant. Could you identify the gentleman who just spoke? 



Mr. Sandefur. That was Mr. Riehl, in charge of our R&D. You 

 must understand that the FTC established the rating for Barclay. 

 The machine that was used to measure Barclay, when we manufac- 

 tured Barclay and we measured it, the machine, the FTC methodol- 

 ogy measured it at 1 milligram tar. Exception was taken to that 

 because of the design of the cigarette. 



We took it to court. The court decided that we should talk with 

 FTC and go with FTC, which we did, and the numbers are on the 

 pack. 



Mr. Bryant. Let us stick with the Barclay cigarette. Are you say- 

 ing that you do not know whether or not Barclay cigarette has a 

 nicotine content from the tobacco of 2.3 percent or higher? 



Mr. Sandefur. No, sir, I don't, because we don't — I don't make 

 it a habit of looking at nicotine on my cigarettes. 



Mr. Bryant. The average nicotine content in tobacco is 1.7 per- 

 cent. So if 2.3 percent is correct, ^it is 35 percent higher than the 

 nicotine content in the average tobacco leaf. My question is do you 

 deliberately mix the tobacco for the Barclay cigarette so that it will 

 have a much higher concentration of nicotine? 



Mr. Sandefur. I'm going to ask Mr. Riehl to answer that ques- 

 tion. He is the blender on the cigarette. 



Mr. RiEHL. No, sir. We blend for taste, not nicotine. 



Mr. Bryant. In order to obtain your goals with regard to taste, 

 do you deliberately mix the tobacco for the Barclay cigarette so 

 that it will have a much higher concentration of nicotine? 

 Mr. RiEHL. No, sir, we don't. We blend for taste. 

 Mr. Bryant. Go ahead. I yield. 



Mr. Waxman. I find this unbelievable. If you listen to what 

 they're saying, they blend for taste, but they also say nicotine adds 

 to the taste. So it seems to me that what's happening is you're 

 blending the higher tobacco, the higher nicotine tobacco in some of 

 these low tar cigarettes so it comes out, even though it may be low 

 tar, with a higher nicotine label. 



