791 



Mr. Waxman. Like the American Lung Association and Dr. 

 Benowitz, Dr. Gori found, and I quote, "FTC analytic determina- 

 tions are poor predictors of relative intake of nicotine." So when 

 this panel tells us that the FTC numbers show that nicotine rates 

 are going down, they're relying on FTC numbers that they are able 

 to affect, and which are not a predictor of what is happening to the 

 smoker. 



Now, if it's not a predictor of what's happening to the smoker, 

 you would expect that maybe in smokers who have died, you can 

 measure some of those nicotine levels. Dr. Gori's chart on page 318, 

 showed that the individual plasma nicotine values as a function of 

 FTC nicotine jdeld of cigarette smoke was not relevant and, in fact, 

 plasma levels showed the same levels of nicotine. 



This is relevant to the question of Dr. Spears' presentation in 

 1981, where he wrote that when the cigarettes were reduced for 

 tar, the nicotine levels through a blending process could be greater 

 and could result in a greater nicotine concentration. 



Now, Dr. Spears says that concentration doesn't make any dif- 

 ference because it's the FTC numbers that make a difference. The 

 FTC numbers do not make the difference. It's the concentration in 

 the cigarettes because of the blending. If you have a higher con- 

 centration because of the blending in the cigarette which results in 

 a higher nicotine level or concentration that is getting to the smok- 

 er, that is something the smoker will experience. 



That will keep the smoker, if you accept the proposition, which 

 this group does not, but which every other scientific — every other 

 medical group that's looked at it would submit, nicotine is, in fact, 

 addicting. 



I was impressed by the statement that you blend tobacco for 

 taste. You blend, as Mr. Suber, from the RJR Company, said, even 

 though Mr. Johnston denies it, to achieve levels that the consumers 

 have come to expect. 



This is all a very slick way, in my estimation, of saying that it's 

 really being done, you can say for other reasons, but for the levels 

 of nicotine that consumers will experience. Mr. Suber said in order 

 to deliver to the consumer a product that he wants, which contains 

 a consistent level of nicotine, so we have to blend the tobaccos ac- 

 cordingly. So we do control it. They control it. They control the lev- 

 els of nicotine by controlling the levels of concentration. This is one 

 way we know that levels of nicotine can be manipulated. 



Now, I want to ask a question of Mr. Johnston. You said that you 

 want to advertise for adults to change brands. Well, I'll take you 

 at your word, but tell me what this ad is all about. What adult is 

 going to be influenced by this ad? "There's something for everyone 

 at Joe's Place." There's Joe Camel. There's all these people having 

 a wonderful time. 



I'm an adult. I don't understand it. What do your advertising 

 people have in mind when they produce have this ad to appeal to 

 adults and not children? 



Mr. James Johnston. The setting for that ad is a nightclub, a 

 venue accessible ordinarily to people 21 years and older, who would 

 understand what a nightclub is like and people having fun. The ad 

 also talks about the smoothness of the product and it 



