800 



Mr. Waxman. This chart compares two sets of data on nicotine 

 concentrations. It shows a general trend toward the use of tobacco 

 blends with higher nicotine concentrations over the last 40 years. 

 So I would submit there's really no validity to your claim that nico- 

 tine levels are going down. 



What do you say about that? 



Mr. James Johnston. I would say, once again, I agree with the 

 Surgeon General of the United States. We have gone back and 

 recalculated the Surgeon (Jeneral's numbers and we agree with 

 them. Now, I don't agree with the Surgeon General on everything, 

 but I agree with the Surgeon General on that. 



This is information I have never seen before. I will take this very 

 seriously. I will go back, analyze this, and I will submit, for the 

 record, a response. 



Mr. Waxman. Isn't it backwards to say that those numbers are 

 really the Surgeon General's numbers that you're relying on? The 

 Surgeon General's numbers are the FTC numbers. 



Mr. James Johnston. They are worked through the FTC. Mr. 

 Congressman, again, I believe I can be helpful to this committee 

 on that subject. 



Mr. Waxman. I appreciate that attitude because I want you to 

 be helpful. I want all of you to be helpful. We've got a health crisis 

 in this country causing an enormous amount of expense and loss 

 of lives and paiin and suffering and misery due to cigarettes. 



I think we ought to work together to figure out a way to try to 

 lessen that burden. I want you to be constructive, not simply to tell 

 us you don't believe the health statistics that all the medical ex- 

 perts have submitted. You don't believe the Surgeon General's re- 

 port on nicotine addiction. You don't believe anything but that 

 which serves your purpose, the FTC numbers, which, I would sub- 

 mit, has been challenged by Dr. Kessler in a way that I think rea- 

 sonable people have to wonder whether those FTC numbers mean 

 anything, because they certainly don't correlate to what a smoker 

 is ingesting through inhaling the smoke. 



Have you done human studies to measure the nicotine levels in 

 blood or related to nicotine addiction? 



Mr. James Johnston. Mr. Chairman, we have done blood nico- 

 tine or continine studies. I would like to submit those to this com- 

 mittee for the record because I think they will be helpful. What 

 those studies show — let's sort of back up to what I'd want to know 

 as a smoker. 



Some of the questions that have come up today might well scare 

 me about am I getting more nicotine with a low tar cigarette, is 

 this thing deceiving me, should I switch to a high tar cigarette. I 

 don't believe that's the case, 



Mr. Waxman. How about switching to no cigarette if you want 

 to avoid the nicotine levels. 



Mr. James Johnston. Absolutely. 



Mr. Waxman. Would you submit to us these studies that you 

 have done, human studies on the levels? 



Mr. James Johnston. There is one 



Mr. Waxman. I want to ask whether the other Chief Executive 

 Officers will be as cooperative as you are planning to be. 



Mr. James Johnston. I'd like to share with you 



