801 



Mr. Waxman. Would you submit to us, as well, your 



Mr. Campbell. I don't know if we have anything available. I'd 

 have to check. 



Mr. Waxman. What we want are studies, human studies to 

 measure nicotine levels on blood and studies relating to nicotine 

 addiction. Do any of you refuse to give it or will you be willing to 

 give us whatever you may have? You may not have studies, but if 

 you do, we think we ought to get it and we think you ought to give 

 it. Do any of you refuse? 



Mr. Sandefur. Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Yes, Mr. Sandefur. 



Mr. Sandefur. The work on continine was done by Dr. Gori and 

 that's been published. That's the work that we've done at Brown 

 and Williamson. 



Mr. Waxman. That one we have. 



Mr. Donald Johnston. Mr. Chairman, we have not done any 

 such studies on our own premises, but as I mentioned earlier, we 

 were involved in grants with the Medical College of Virginia from 

 the 1930's to the 1960's and if any of that information is necessary, 

 fine, we'll cooperate. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Horrigan? 



Mr. Horrigan. We have done no such testing, but we'll continue 

 to review and cooperate fully. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you. Mr. Tisch? 



Mr. TiSCH. We've done no such studies, but we'll be glad to give 

 them to you. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Taddeo? 



Mr. Taddeo. We've done no such studies, but we'll cooperate. 



Mr. Waxman. And the other two have said yes. Mr. Bliley, I'm 

 going to let you take a turn. 



Mr. Bliley. Mr. Johnston, perhaps you can help us with this 

 issue of the relationship between the amount of nicotine in the to- 

 bacco rod and the amount of nicotine in cigarette smoke. Which one 

 is more important and why? 



Mr. James Johnston. Clearly, as a smoker, I would say it's 

 what's in the smoke and how jnuch stays in my body. From the 

 very limited — and I wouldn't call this a massive scientific study, 

 but from the very limited work that we've done in this area, which 

 we will provide to this committee. 



Think of an FTC number as an EPA gas mileage number. If I 

 drive my car fast, I get less gas mileage than what the sticker says. 

 If I drive it easy, I get more. So it is with the FTC tar numbers. 

 I may smoke one cigarette differently from another. Within a ciga- 

 rette, I will get diff'erent tar and nicotine per puff, depending on 

 how 



Mr. Bliley. Are you saying that you could get different levels of 

 nicotine from two cigarettes from the same pack? 



Mr. James Johnston. Depending on how I smoke it. If I'm under 

 stress — wait till you see the cigarette I light up after this hearing. 

 It's probably going to be a high tar cigarette. It depends on how 

 you smoke it. It depends on how you puff it. But here's the inter- 

 esting thing we found; again, limited data, that among low tar 

 smokers, the actual amount ingested as opposed to the FTC tar 

 number, taking highs, lows, depending on how you smoke the ciga- 



