50 



Mr. DeNoble. Yes, they were. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you, Mr. Wyden. 



Mr. Wyden. Would it be fair to say that the senior management 

 people were troubled or worried about the work that you were 

 doing? 



Mr. DeNoble. From that meeting, I didn't think so. In fact, on 

 the way back in the plane, we all thought things went very, very 

 well. However, subsequently after that meeting, we were told that 

 our laboratory might be shut down, but they wanted to continue 

 the research. And the possibility was that we would set up a lab- 

 oratory in Lusanne, Switzerland, to continue the research. 



Mr. Wyden. Let me ask you specifically about a matter a couple 

 of weeks after the meeting. Were you told a couple of weeks after 

 the meeting, by several of the Philip Morris management, that 

 your lab was generating information that the company did not 

 want generated inside the company? 



Mr. DeNoble. That is correct. Apparently, at the time some liti- 

 gation had come out, some lawsuits. And we were told that the 

 data we were generating, and the types of studies that we doing, 

 would not be favorable in that litigation. 



Mr. Wyden. Were you told then that the top management was 

 looking at a couple of specific options, one of them was releasing 

 you and your associate from employment, and possibly trying to 

 look at some other arrangement? 



Mr. DeNoble. Yes. Two options were discussed. One was to re- 

 lease us from employment but employ us as contract individuals 

 somewhere in Richmond or somewhere close to the research center, 

 because the scientists at Philip Morris down in Richmond, felt the 

 research should continue. 



Then there was the idea, the discussion that really doesn't re- 

 move it from the company as much as they would like it, so they 

 talked about sending us to Lusanne, Switzerland, at a contract fa- 

 cility. 



Mr. Waxman. Could the gentleman yield? 



Mr. Wyden. I'd be happy to yield, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Could we get for the record, who was telling you 

 these things? 



Mr. DeNoble. Dr. Jim Charles and Dr. Tom Osdene. 



Mr, Waxman. They were with you at Philip Morris in Richmond? 



Mr. DeNoble. Yes. Dr. Charles was our immediate supervisor. 

 He was the manager of the biochemistry group. Dr. Osdene was 

 the research director and reported to the vice president. 



Mr. Waxman. And both of those options were to have you do the 

 work, but not in house? 



Mr. DeNoble. That is correct. 



Mr. Waxman. Did they give you a reason? 



Mr. DeNoble. They just said that if the work were removed from 

 the company, connecting it back to the company would be, you 

 know, more difficult to do than if it's being done right in the com- 

 pany itself. 



Mr. Waxman. That's what we call deniability. 



Mr. DeNoble. I'm sorry, sir, I don't know. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Wyden? 



