95 



I have never had this happen to me. I've never heard of it hap- 

 pening to any other scientist that I've ever talked to. This is very, 

 very unusual. Paul? I don't know if Paul has. But I don't know if 

 anyone else has tested the waters and gone against an agreement 

 like this, like we signed. I mean, that was clearly 



Mr. Synar. Well, let's talk about that agreement, because you ob- 

 viously have a confidentiality agreement. The last 10 years you 

 haven't been free to talk publicly about your work. There have got 

 to be other researchers in that same situation. How do these agree- 

 ments work in practice? Are they, in effect, a complete bar to get- 

 ting information to the very people that the information is sup- 

 posed to serve? 



Mr. DeNoble. I've never had an agreement — I've never had an 

 agreement with anybody else like this. This is the only agreement 

 that I've ever had. 



Mr. Synar. This is unique to the tobacco industry? 



Mr. DeNoble. No, sir, it's not. Industry has agreements that you 

 will not divulge proprietary information, that you will not take 

 data with you when you leave. Those every company has. This 

 agreement was probably similar to those agreements, but it was 

 being enforced in quite a different way. 



This was used to prevent us from publishing information that did 

 not relate to a product, did not relate to a marketing issue. It just 

 didn't relate to an3rthing like that. It was just the science. And 

 what we found wasn't liked. 



Mr. Synar. Let me conclude with just this general question. Dr. 

 DeNoble, if I could. You are presently employed where? 



Mr. DeNoble. I work with the Department of Mental Retarda- 

 tion with the State of Delaware, servicing folks who have- -or citi- 

 zens who are mentally retarded. 



Mr. Synar. And Dr. Mele, you are where? 



Mr. Mele. I work with the Defense Department. 



Mr. Synar. OK. What has this experience over the years told you 

 about the tobacco industry? What does it tell you about the char- 

 acter and the trustworthiness of this industry? 



More importantly, what did it feel like on April 14, 1994, as you 

 watched as the rest of America did, the testimony of the seven 

 chief tobacco executives of this country on the issue of whether or 

 not, one, tobacco is deadly; and second, that nicotine is not addict- 

 ive. What did you feel like at the moment when you saw that? 



Mr. DeNoble. That's a very difficult question to answer. You 

 know, when I first agreed to appear before this committee, I prom- 

 ised that I probably would not go out and make public policy. It's 

 difficult to watch those hearings and to feel good about what hap- 

 pened to us. 



I would very much like to stick with the issues surrounding the 

 laboratory, and would very much like to stick to the issues in the 

 data, and would very much not like to personalize this. That's the 

 best answer I can give you, sir. 



Mr. Synar. Dr. Mele? 



Mr. Mele. It just brought back to me the amount of data and 

 type of data that we had collected and that was going nowhere. 

 And in a very limited sense, that data should be out. I don't know 



