134 



I'm not a teratologist, and I can't interpret that data, but I do re- 

 member seeing the slides and hearing the presentation. 



Mr. Waxman. And what did the mice look like? 



Mr. DeNoble. A lot of the mice had fairly open lesions and 

 wounds from a variety of substances placed on their skin, but I do 

 not know what those substances were, other than they were smoke 

 components. 



Mr. Waxman. And would nitrosamines have been involved in 

 that? 



Mr. DeNoble. Nitrosamines? No, that was a different research 

 project. That was Dr. Jim Charles' research project. They were 

 looking at the effects of nitrosamines on the lung's ability to repair 

 itself using a chromatid exchange procedure in the lung. Again, 

 that is out of the area of my expertise. I attended some meetings 

 and presentations, but I couldn't give you the 



Mr. Waxman. And do you recall what results there were from 

 these nitrosamine studies? 



Mr. DeNoble. In general terms, that the lung's ability to repair 

 itself was impaired after exposure to various nitrosamines. 



Mr. Waxman. An issue that has received some attention recently 

 is whether the FTC — Federal Trade Commission — test method ac- 

 curately measures the amount of nicotine consumed by smokers. At 

 our March 25th hearing. Dr. Kessler said that this test method 

 doesn't accurately measure actual consumption because the tobacco 

 companies can manipulate the test. 



One example of manipulation he cited was putting ventilation 

 holes in cigarettes which are then covered up by the smoker's lips 

 or fingers. Did either of you observe any research conducted by 

 Philip Morris on this issue? 



[Mr. DeNoble and Mr. Mele confer.] 



Mr. DeNoble. There was some research that was done and, 

 again, I'm a little vague on the specific results of the research. At 

 the time there was a cigarette on the market that either had ven- 

 tilation holes or tubes inserted — not tubes, they were tube-like — 

 what do you call it? 



Mr. Mele. Channels. 



Mr. DeNoble. They were channels inserted in the filter, and 

 that would allow a smoking machine to smoke the cigarette with- 

 out crushing the filter. Research at Philip Morris was done where 

 they actually observed, they filmed people smoking and they no- 

 ticed that the people would actually crush these channels as they 

 would put the cigarette to their mouth. 



Not everybody would do that, but there was evidence of a fair 

 number of smokers delivering a lot more of the smoke phase to the 

 lung than would be delivered in the machine. 



Mr. Waxman. Do either of you recall the names of any of the re- 

 searchers? 



Mr. DeNoble. The name was Frank Ryan, Francis Ryan. 



Mr. Waxman. And what they determined was that some smokers 

 did cover up the ventilation holes with their fingers or their lips, 

 so that the FTC tests which didn't do that might have had a dif- 

 ferent result than what was the actual consumption of the smoke 

 in the individual involved? 



