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it, because we also have to recognize that one of the ways children 

 get hooked is by these individuals that sell them one or two ciga- 

 rettes at a time. I mean it is just like a drug dealer who will give 

 you a little bit of cocaine or a little bit of pot. The cigarette com- 

 pany — the cigarette retailers will give you one or two cigarettes, 

 then they get you hooked, and then you are into it. 



Mr. Waxman. The law in every State in this country prohibits 

 the sale of tobacco to minors, and yet over 60 percent of smokers 

 today started smoking when they were younger than 16 — 16 — and 

 over 90 percent of the smokers today started when they were under 

 21. So for them to have started smoking at that age, they were evi- 

 dently breaking the law when they were able to obtain those ciga- 

 rettes. 



But smoking is not only dangerous because — to kids who start 

 smoking, they may get addicted, but can you tell us about the link 

 of cigarette smoking to other hard drugs? 



Mr. Califano. Well, Mr. Chairman, I note in the attachment to 

 my statement, we have done an analysis. The National Institute of 

 Drug Abuse conducts something called the National Household 

 Survey on Drug Abuse. It is the most — involves about 30,000 

 households. It is the most extensive survey of its kind about drug 

 use in America, and we — based on our analysis of that survey, it 

 is clear to us that children who smoke, 12- to 17-year-olds, are far 

 more likely to use illicit drugs than those who do not smoke. 



I cited in my testimony the figures of all smokers. If we go to 

 heavy smokers who are teenagers who smoked more than one pack 

 a day, the numbers become staggering. They are 51 times more 

 likely to use heroin; they are 105 times more likely to use cocaine; 

 they are 111 times more likely to use crack. And this is a serious 

 problem, there is no question about it. For teenage America, ciga- 

 rettes are a drug of entry into a world of harder drugs for many, 

 many teenagers. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Califano, my 5 minutes is up for this round 

 of questions, but I want to thank you for what you have had to tell 

 us. 



We expect the tobacco industry to cooperate with this subcommit- 

 tee because we are dealing with a very important public health 

 danger. But I, like you, want to indicate that no one should be in- 

 timidated any longer by this tactic that might have worked 10 

 years ago or 20 years ago of trying to intimidate. We are going to 

 do our job on this subcommittee, we are going to treat people fairly, 

 but we are not going to be turned aside for any reason because 

 what we are doing is as important as anything the Congress can 

 do when we are dealing with the health of the American people. 



Thank you very much. 



Mr. Califano. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 



I must say that in 35 years, most of it in public life, I have never, 

 ever been subjected to something like that. I have never received 

 a letter like that enclosing an order as preposterously broad as 

 that. It was a blatant attempt to intimidate me, and, as I said, Mr. 

 Chairman, I am not going to be intimidated on this subject. 



Mr. Waxman. Well, I commend you, Mr. Califano. 



Mr. Califano. Thank you. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. Bliley. 



