325 



Mr. McMillan. Is this a Federal judge seeking to intimidate 

 you? 



Mr. Califano. It is the hired lawyers for the tobacco company 

 and the tobacco company 



Mr. McMillan. AJl lawyers are hired as far as I am concerned. 

 But is this a court order? 



Mr. Califano. This is a court order signed by a judge named 

 Thomas B. Wine dated January 7, 1994. I don't know if we have 

 any other copies of it, but we may have. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. McMillan, would you yield to me? 



Mr. McMillan. I would like the Secretary to answer my ques- 

 tion. 



Mr. Califano. It is an order dated January 7, 1994, signed by 

 Thomas B. Wine, and the order prohibits, as I said, among other 

 things, "All persons who are informed of this are hereby restrained 

 and enjoined from disclosing to anyone other than plaintiffs or in- 

 tervening plaintiff" — which was Brown and Williamson — "any ma- 

 terial or information in the possession of said defendant" — some- 

 body named Williams — "including without limitation, and whether 

 in a category of privilege or confidential or otherwise, all docu- 

 ments, computer discs and drives and other storage retrieval sys- 

 tems and other tangible and electronic materials and things be- 

 longing to plaintiffs or any of their clients, including without limi- 

 tation Brown and Williamson, all information contained therein 

 and thereon, all documents, manuscripts, narratives, reproductions, 

 or using for any purpose in any manner the" 



Mr. McMillan. Please don't read — don't read the letter. I think 

 we are referring to documents that allegedly have been taken, sto- 

 len, and are subject to court order with respect to their restitution, 

 and what you are referring to as intimidation is actually the result 

 of an order of a Federal district court judge. Is that correct? 



Mr. Califano. This is not a Federal district court judge, this is 

 a judge in — in, as I said, in Jefferson County, Ky. 



Mr. McMillan. OK. I stand corrected. It is a State judge. 



Mr, Califano. Let me say, you know, I am a lawyer, I have rep- 

 resented a lot of people, I have also been on and off in public life. 

 I have never, ever received anything like this in my life. I am ap- 

 palled that somebody would send something like this, have it deliv- 

 ered, it arrives on my desk at 5:00 the night before I am supposed 

 to testify here. It is an obvious attempt to say, "We want to intimi- 

 date you, we don't want you testifying. Look at this order. We may 

 file something against you. We may try and use up your resources. 

 We" 



Mr. McMillan. I am not a lawyer, I am just a poor lay Member 

 of Congress, but I think it refers to documents that are the subject 

 of court order. 



Mr. Califano. It refers to articles in the New York Times. I 

 mean if we can't discuss articles in the New York Times in this 

 country and before this committee 



Mr. McMillan. I do it every day. I don't necessarily accept what 

 they say or what anyone else says, I try to use my own judgment. 



But I think the documents are subject to a court order, and I 

 think it is misleading to simply suggest that it was done to intimi- 

 date you. That is very much at issue here, as I understand it. I 



