389 



Mr. Waxman. They were identified as CTR documents. 



Mr. Glenn. By the press. I think if you will read the judge's 

 statements, you will find that there is some ambiguity. These were 

 documents apparently referring to CTR, but none of these docu- 

 ments were a part of our files at CTR. None of the 1,500 documents 

 to which he referred are in our files or were ever in our files. 



Mr. Waxman. Do you know of any reason why a committee of the 

 Congress shouldn't have those documents? 



Mr. Glenn. Mr. Waxman, again, that is something that you can 

 deal with the sponsor companies about. 



Mr. Waxman. My question is, do you know of any reason why 

 they shouldn't be given to us? 



Mr. Glenn. I don't even know what the documents are, Mr. Wax- 

 man, so I can't respond to that. 



Mr. Waxman. Then how do you know they are not CTR docu- 

 ments. They are from before your time as chairman. 



Mr. Glenn. Mr. Waxman, I assure you, they are not documents 

 from the CTR. 



Mr. Waxman. And how do you know that? 



Mr. Glenn. I know that because we have examined this issue as 

 carefully as possible, and 



Mr. Waxman. Who is we? 



Mr. Glenn. We internally, the Council for Tobacco Research and 

 its staff in conjunction with counsel. 



Mr. Waxman. And have you been able to identify these docu- 

 ments? 



Mr. Glenn. No, sir. 



Mr. Waxman. Then how do you have knowledge of these docu- 

 ments if you haven't been able to identify these documents? 



Mr. Glenn. I have knowledge of them only from what I read in 

 the paper. 



Mr. Waxman. You just told me that characterizations by the 

 paper of CTR documents were not accurate. 



Mr. Glenn. It is not accurate. 



Mr. Waxman. And you know that not to be accurate because you 

 reviewed these with your attorneys and perhaps others. Is that cor- 

 rect? 



Mr. Glenn. Correct. 



Mr. Waxman. So how do you know what the documents are or 

 are not? 



Mr. Glenn. As I said, Mr. Waxman, we reviewed this internally 

 with our staff and we were further advised by counsel that these 

 were not our documents and were not a part of our files. 



Mr. Waxman. Then you have not seen the documents? 



Mr. Glenn. No, sir. 



Mr. Waxman. Has your staff seen the documents? 



Mr. Glenn. No, sir. 



Mr. Waxman. Have your lawyers seen the documents? 



Mr. Glenn. I can't answer that. I 



Mr. Waxman. Then how can you tell us what these documents 

 are or are not? 



Mr. Glenn. I have told you 



Mr. Waxman. You told me all you know about it is what you read 

 in the newspaper. You said the newspapers, however, have identi- 



