81 



Mr. Kessler. Let me just describe it. This was part of a pro- 

 motional document, and other witnesses talked about this. It was 

 an exhibit, Plaintiffs Exhibit 100, Marsee v. U.S. Tobacco Com- 

 pany. You see various different products and you see products that 

 start on the bottom and move up to the top. It talked about the 

 graduation process and how you graduate from one product to the 

 next. We have done some analysis that we would be happy to share 

 with you. Congressman, if you look at nicotine bioavailability and 

 what is being suggested, is that you start off with those products 

 that have the least amount of nicotine. 



And as you get to the top of the whole graduation process, as you 

 graduate, you go to products that have higher and higher nicotine. 

 Again, you need to focus on nicotine bioavailability. I am aware of 

 that document. Again, we would very much welcome the smokeless 

 industry providing us with all documents on any nicotine manipu- 

 lation, all nicotine control, all nicotine's physiological and pharma- 

 cological effects. 



Mr. Franks. I yield back the balance of my time, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you Mr. Franks. 



Mr. Kreidler. 



Mr. Kreidler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Dr. Kessler, I am just kind of sitting here trying to figure out 

 why the industry kind of responds the way it does. It kind of re- 

 minds me of back in the 1960's with the first Surgeon General 

 warnings, when there was denial on the part of the industry that 

 there were any harmful health effects from tobacco smoking. They 

 only acquiesced under pressure to the warnings finally being put 

 on cigarette packages and so forth. 



I am curious, is the reason right now that, if you have a kind 

 of a gut feel or what do you think the reasons are as to why the 

 tobacco industry right now is so adamantly fighting this connection 

 with addiction with their product? Is it because they feel that the 

 admission will lead to FDA or some kind of controls on nicotine and 

 how it is delivered with other chemicals, if they admit to addiction, 

 in the same way they were so apprehensive, perhaps for liability 

 and other reasons, to admitting to health effects? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, I would very much appreciate if we 

 were not asked to comment specifically on motives that we can't de- 

 termine factually. We asked Congress for guidance and I feel obli- 

 gated to present you with the facts we have determined in our in- 

 vestigation. 



I would not like to go beyond those facts in any conjecture. I 

 apologize. Congressman. 



Mr. Kreidler. I can appreciate that. I guess I am sitting here 

 thinking about somebody who would be sitting out there wondering 

 why there is this reaction on the part of tobacco companies. I 

 mean, I think we have all recognized for an awful long time that 

 nicotine was the means of getting people hooked on tobacco. 



Mr. Kessler. I certainly would agree with that statement. Con- 

 gressman. 



Mr. Kreidler. You know it is interesting to me as I look at the 

 recent ad campaign that has just started out here that — and you 

 have probably seen these full -page ads right now that RJR is run- 

 ning — R.J. Reynolds, that is — running claiming that we are trying 



