86 



Or are you going to try to regulate the number of units of a product 

 one consumes in a day? You say we regulate alcohol. We don't reg- 

 ulate the amount that one consumes unless we do it through driv- 

 ing under the influence legislation. 



Mr. Kessler. Andrew, could you just show the backup chart on 

 nicotine and alcohol, please. It is chart N, please. 



Mr. McMillan. Well, forgetting the chart for a minute, what are 

 you — what do you anticipate you will come back to us with in the 

 form of a recommendation? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, I would be happy to answer that in 

 a second. Let me just finish for just 2 seconds. There is a vast dif- 

 ference in percent of people who use alcohol. You can use alcohol 

 and only 8 to 15 percent end up the estimates are that they are 

 addicted; 74 to 90 percent of people who use cigarettes end up ad- 

 dicted. You can use 



Mr. McMillan. There has to be a concern about why we come 

 up with addiction. It has been said to me by plaintiffs' attorneys 

 that perhaps as many as 90 percent of those incarcerated in jail 

 today because of a crime are there because of a crime related to 

 drugs or alcohol. 



Would you include cigarettes in that category? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, you are correct, our focus and the 

 focus I think of this committee is not the fact that cigarettes are 

 simply addictive, the problem is that cigarettes are addictive and 

 they kill people. 



Mr. McMillan. So does alcohol. 



Mr. Kessler. Not when used in moderation. 



Mr. Waxman. Mr. McMillan, your time is expired. 



Before recognizing Mr. Hastert, I want to point out for the record 

 that the tobacco industry has made public statements that they do 

 not manipulate the nicotine levels. They have made those state- 

 ments. They tried to be very careful when they testified under 

 oath. They have tried to say specifically they don't spike the levels, 

 but there have been public statements that they don't manipulate 

 the level, they don't control the levels. 



And I just want you to know that is a reality that you indicated 

 they didn't make those statements, but they have. 



Mr. McMillan. If I may respond, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Yes. 



Mr. McMillan. I think it depends on your definition of manipu- 

 lation. On any product that you make and you have control over 

 the contents you could charge manipulation. I think the important 

 thing is to go back for-the record and hear what they said in re- 

 sponse to my question that said, do you know of any cigarette 

 maker who has produced a product in which the end product con- 

 tains a higher nicotine content than the constituent tobacco that 

 was put into the cigarette and they all said no. So 



Mr. Waxman. I will be pleased to furnish you a transcript of the 

 statement made by Brenda Dawson on behalf of the tobacco indus- 

 try on Face the Nation where she explicitly stated they do not ma- 

 nipulate in any way the levels of nicotine and nicotine levels for 

 the tar. 



