90 



Mr. Kessler. I am willing to follow established procedures. 



Mr. BiLlRAKlS. Now, those are the things that bother me, Mr. 

 Chairman; words like "established procedures." 



Would you in the process of furnishing information to us make 

 it known to us without divulging this "confidential information," 

 that you apparently are going to be subjectively the determining 

 factor in what information you are not furnishing to us? I don't 

 want that to come across the wrong way, but what I am trying to 

 say is that while I am not going to — ^without divulging the specific 

 information, I would like to know and I think this subcommittee 

 should know, that there is information regarding a particular sub- 

 ject that you are not divulging because you have subjectively deter- 

 mined that it is confidential and it is not in order for the majority 

 or the minority of this committee. 



Can you do that? Can you add that to this submittal? 



Mr. Kessler. No, Congressman. What I am prepared to do is 

 that in anjrthing that I have brought before this committee, to 

 make sure that I have quoted properly. 



I am not prepared at this point to make investigative files — I am 

 not prepared to make those investigative files that could jeopardize 

 either an investigation or jeopardize certain confidential inform- 

 ants. That is why we have, Congressman, established procedures 

 and I am willing to follow those established procedures. 



Mr. BiLlRAKls. Do we know what those established procedures 

 might be? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, we have worked with this committee 

 for a long time and I would be happy to have staff go over the es- 

 tablished procedures of what documents 



Mr. BiLiRAKis. Do you have — yes, sir? 



Mr. Waxman. Would the gentleman yield? 



Mr. BiLiRAKiS. All my time is being taken up, Mr. Chairman, and 

 I haven't intended that, but yes, I will yield, obviously. 



Mr. Waxman. I do want you to understand that we want to work 

 with you and make available information to you consistent with 

 protecting confidential information. I think that is what Dr. 

 Kessler is saying and oftentimes that is just a matter that has to 

 be protected and certainly you would see it that way as well. 



Mr. BiLlRAKls. But, Mr. Chairman, this is the first time — I am 

 flabbergasted and I have learned a lot in this hearing so far. 



Mr. Waxman. I am glad. 



Mr. BiLiRAKls. That is what a hearing is all about. We should be 

 coming in as open-minded as we possibly can be. Unfortunately, 

 that is not always the case, but this is the first time that I have 

 heard anything about confidential sources or anything of that na- 

 ture. I am just flabbergasted. 



Mr. Waxman. Well, where have you been? Don't you think people 

 come in with information they don't want given to the tobacco com- 

 pany or some other group that is being investigated? Don't you 

 think that people come forward when they know they are going to 

 be respected and their confidentiality — don't you think that indus- 

 tries will say to us very frequently, "We want to help you with your 

 investigation, but we don't want this information out because we 

 don't want our competitors to have this information?" 



