93 



then several weeks ago, we were having a hearing that was based 

 on information that was illegally obtained by someone who had a 

 client relationship with one of the subjects of the discussion, which 

 was clearly a violation of confidentiality it seems to me. What is 

 the consistency there? 



Mr. Waxman. We have not had a hearing on anything along 

 those lines. 



Mr. McMillan. There was a lot of information delivered in testi- 

 mony that was illegally obtained. 



Mr. Waxman. I am sorry the gentleman is not correct. That is 

 an inaccurate statement. 



It is Mr. Hastert's opportunity to ask questions. 



Mr. Hastert. I thank the chairman. 



I am listening to this and it is kind of surreal. You are saying 

 that you think that — Members of Congress, this subcommittee, the 

 whole committee, have to make intelligent decisions. But you are 

 going to give us only that information that you are going to spoon- 

 feed us. You are not going to give us all the information that is 

 available to us. You come up with decisions and predetermine what 

 things ought to be. 



Maybe you shared some of that information with the chairman 

 because you have some type of an agreement here. Is it that you 

 don't think the rest of us should have that information because you 

 don't trust us? That is contempt. I think that is contempt of Con- 

 gress, sir. 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, there are established procedures, 

 and we will follow those established procedures. 



Mr. Hastert. Tell me what those established procedures are. 

 Tell us. What are the established procedures? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman 



Mr. Hastert. What are they? What are the established proce- 

 dures? You are telling us mumbo-jumbo. Tell me what the estab- 

 lished procedures are. 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, we are engaged in an investiga- 

 tion 



Mr. Hastert. No, no, no. Wait a minute. Don't go around. Either 

 you tell me what those established procedures are, or I think you 

 are in contempt of Congress. 



You said there are established procedures. We should know what 

 they are. What are they? 



Mr. Kessler. I would be happy to tell you. 



Mr. Hastert. Tell me. Here we are. 



No; you, sir. Your established procedures, what are they? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, I have very good people at the Agen- 

 cy who are trained professionals and know those procedures, if you 

 would like to know the procedures. I rely on them. If you would 

 like to hear the procedures 



Mr. Hastert. Do you know what they are? You can't tell us what 

 those procedures are? I think you are in contempt. 



Mr. Waxman. Gentleman, as a Member of Congress, do you know 

 the procedures? 



Mr. Hastert. That is why I am asking. Evidently, we are in the 

 dark. We don't know what those procedures are and the gentleman 

 is not willing to tell us what they are. 



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