118 



For some people, cutting in half the deliveries at periodic intervals 

 really does help them get off cigarettes. 



Mr. McMillan. Well, you seem to be hung up on addiction. The 

 question is what is harmful and that is what we need to address. 

 In order to do that intelligently, we need facts and what we are 

 getting here is speculation, so I would urge you to get on with the 

 development of whatever it is that you are prepared to present. 

 And then we should come back and take a serious look at it and 

 try to make some intelligent choices, because we are basically up 

 here debating a lot of speculation and emotion rather than the 

 facts. 



I think it is the facts that you perhaps are in the best position 

 to sift through and provide us with a recommendation on. 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, I certainly understand the need to 

 move on to the policy aspects, but let me make sure the record is 

 correct. We are interested in addiction, first of all, because of the 

 definition of drug. But leave no doubt, it is not just the addictive 

 potential; it is the harm that addiction causes. I think there is no 

 question about that harm. 



Mr. McMillan. But what are the facts that we really need to get 

 to? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, I think that there is no disagree- 

 ment in the scientific and medical community. When you see 

 420,000 people die each year 



Mr. McMillan. I would like you to get the facts up here. Dr. 

 Kessler, so that we can make some decisions instead of rehashing 

 the same statistics over and over again. 



I thank the Chair. 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, those facts are in fact what ciga- 

 rettes do. We can't deny their hazard. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired. 



Mr. Synar? 



Mr. Synar. I can't let that go unattended. I am disappointed by 

 the tenor that this debate has taken, at least from the Republican 

 side. I think that Dr. Kessler has taken pains to say — in the last 

 3 hours, we have seen one of the most comprehensive presentation 

 of facts related to this issue, unlike what we saw when we had our 

 CEO's in here under oath — who at best skirted or stretched believ- 

 ability beyond any form. 



There has been no hiding of documents here. Documents are pro- 

 vided both to the majority and minority and as the chairman said, 

 they have been provided. You have been very forthcoming. I have 

 no criticism. I think those who are criticizing you would like that 

 to be the debate. 



The fact is that we have been here for 3 hours and not one fact 

 that you have presented has been refuted by either the tobacco in- 

 dustry or those people who would attack your credibility. 



That said, let me go into specifics. You said that nicotine re- 

 leased from cigarettes can be increased by adding ammonia; is that 

 correct? 



Mr. Kessler. I am relying on what we have learned from the re- 

 view of the industry information available to us. I am not asserting 

 it for the truth of the fact. I am only stating — I am just repeating, 

 Congressman, what we have learned. 



