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Let me ask a slightly different question, Dr. Kessler. If the Con- 

 gress says we as a collective body are interested in a new Federal 

 policy with respect to smoking, that would in effect have the Con- 

 gress working with your agency and other health agencies to 

 gradually lower nicotine levels over an extended period of time, say 

 10 years, to help smokers in this country defeat this horrible addic- 

 tion, what would you say some of the policy issues would be in 

 looking at something like that and would in fact something like 

 this be an area that you think would be fruitful for the Congress 

 to work on? 



Mr. Kessler. Congressman, it is a complex question. That re- 

 quires very thoughtful analysis. There are those scientific experts 

 who do believe that perhaps a way to reduce ultimately people's de- 

 mand for cigarettes and people's addiction, is you actually deal 

 with the level of addictive substance in the cigarette. 



There are also other ways that are beyond any consideration for 

 this Agency but you have — in fact, this committee has discussed. 

 There is the issue of advertising. There is the issue of restricting 

 access even further. So there are many different ways. Looking at 

 nicotine levels and reducing dependence on that level is certainly 

 one way that needs to be reviewed and thought about and dis- 

 cussed and debated. We will engage the scientific experts on that 

 question over this summer. We don't have all the answers. 



Mr. Wyden. Does research show, for example, that if you reduce 

 nicotine levels, smokers will just smoke more of the cigarette, suck 

 harder on them, et cetera? 



Mr. Kessler. I have read some of those studies, certainly for a 

 short period of time there may be certain compensation, but if you 

 took nicotine down, if there wasn't the kind of elasticity that there 

 is, if you really took the nicotine down so you couldn't get out more, 

 then perhaps you can overcome those compensatory mechanisms. 

 They are complex questions, they need to be addressed scientif- 

 ically, and then the policy aspects of those questions need also to 

 be reviewed. 



Mr. Wyden. Is your agency looking at those issues now, or do 

 you consider those issues the province of another public health 

 agency? 



Mr. Kessler. Obviously when one looks at the question of 

 whether nicotine containing cigarettes are a drug for the purposes 

 of Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act one has to ask the ques- 

 tion in what dose would nicotine be considered a drug for the pur- 

 poses of the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. Perhaps it is 

 all levels of nicotine. Perhaps there is a range. We need to look at 

 that question. 



Mr. Wyden. Well, I am interested in exploring that with you be- 

 cause, along with my colleagues, I share the view that a ban on 

 cigarettes would cause great chaos, but I think this question of in 

 effect gradually lowering nicotine levels over an extended period of 

 time is an important public health issue that ought to be looked 

 at. 



Let me ask you about just one more matter, and I have my 

 friend, Mike Bilirakis here and m.aybe we engage in this together. 



On the matter of an agency request for documents from a tobacco 

 company, if a tobacco company denies an agency, your agency spe- 



