143 



I wasn't at that meeting, but one of Judge Bell's law partners 

 was Gordon Smith, and he will address those allegations. In fact, 

 it now appears, at least to me, that the FDA may have known 

 about Y-1 early on and may have intentionally engaged in a course 

 of conduct that avoided asking questions about Y-1 in an effort to 

 set Brown & Williamson up for the assertion that we failed to dis- 

 close information about Y-1. 



Dr. Kessler's boast — Dr. Kessler boasts that Brown & Williamson 

 did not make concessions about Y-1 until after confronted with the 

 FDA's evidence is highly misleading and grossly unfair. The FDA 

 did not ask Brown & Williamson a single question on this topic 

 until Brown & Williamson initiated a meeting to discuss it. 



Furthermore, contrary to Dr. Kessler's allegations, Y-1 is not a 

 genetically engineered leaf. Crossbreedings — crossbreeding tech- 

 niques similar to those used with food crops were used. This was 

 fully explained to the FDA in our meeting last Friday. 



Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, my fear is that 

 Mr. Baker's quote about the crusade against smoking is correct. We 

 are entering the dangerous stage. Where the rights — pardon me. 

 We are entering the dangerous stage where the rules are good for 

 some but not for all where the rights apply to some but not to all, 

 where the freedoms to make choices apply to some but not to all. 

 Herein lies the danger. We have all seen it in the past and I cer- 

 tainly pray that we are not going to see it in our future. 



Mr. Chairman, I'm here to answer the questions of the sub- 

 committee. I want to be cooperative and I will be cooperative. 

 Please bear in mind, however, that my personal knowledge of my 

 company. Brown & Williamson, and its history and activities is 

 somewhat limited given the fact that I only joined the company 

 over 12 years ago and that my area of expertise is marketing and 

 sales. I am not a scientist and will not be able to speak to scientific 

 issues, particularly those in 30-year-old documents. 



Otherwise, I will do my best to answer your questions. Thank 

 you. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you very much Mr. Sandefur, we appreciate 

 your testimony. 



I want to assure you, because you mentioned it and others in 

 your industry have mentioned it, that I don't know of any Member 

 of Congress that is for prohibition of cigarettes. Prohibition is a ter- 

 rible idea. It failed with alcohol, it would fail with cigarettes. It 

 would be impossible to be enforced and, to the extent that we did 

 enforce it, it would be a cruel punishment for millions of Americans 

 addicted to nicotine. 



There are, however, other measures that we may want to look at, 

 and that will depend on the record of these hearings. And I also 

 want to give a response to your statement that I accused you of 

 knowingly deceiving the subcommittee, and that was based on a 

 letter sent to your attorney dated May 17, 1994, and I want to read 

 the complete quote. 



"According to reports in the Nation's leading newspaper and tele- 

 vision news programs, your client may have knowingly deceived 

 the Congress and this subcommittee in particular about the dan- 

 gers of smoking and the addictiveness of nicotine." 



