199 



Mr. McMillan. Wouldn't it be an enormous risk to significantly 

 elevate the level of nicotine in one of your accepted brands in terms 

 of the potential effect on the market? 



Mr. Sandefur. Yes, sir, I think our franchise would leave us be- 

 cause they wouldn't be accustomed to it and, by and large, high 

 levels of nicotine content in a delivery in a cigarette would be very, 

 very harsh and irritating. And as I've stated, that's not what the 

 consumer prefers. As a matter of fact, they prefer just the opposite. 

 They want a mild and satisfjdng cigarette. 



Mr. McMillan. You know, discussions of taste are very subjec- 

 tive, and I don't know how we can really deal with that issue, and 

 I'm prepared to accept what you say about it, if in fact nicotine is 

 as addictive as has been asserted, and even some documents 

 quoted that suggest that Brown & Williamson is in the business of 

 selling nicotine, I think, or what some lawyer stated with respect 

 thereto, what economically, what would be the best objective, 

 wouldn't it make sense — we get into this issue not only of the con- 

 tent within a unit of product which is similar to alcohol, but the 

 manner in which it is included in that product. I can get just as 

 intoxicated off of beer as I can off of whiskey, but it might take 

 more. 



Mr. Sandefur. According to how much you drink. 



Mr. McMillan. Much more to get to the same point. Now, in the 

 marketing of cigarettes, if in fact one is selling nicotine, would I 

 want to sell it in high doses or low doses? 



Mr. Sandefur. I think you would probably want to sell it in 

 very, very low doses because then the consumer will want to buy 

 a lot more of it, wouldn't they? 



Mr. McMillan. Right. And you make the same profit off a ciga- 

 rette regardless of nicotine content. 



Mr. Sandefur. Absolutely. But what I'm sajang is that the 

 consumer will want the cigarette. They wouldn't buy it because the 

 consumer wants a good tasting cigarette. 



Mr. McMillan. OK. But a real cynical marketing strategy would 

 say, well, let's pull this thing down 



Mr. Sandefur. If in fact you believed all the allegations that 

 have been made, that would follow, yes, sir. 



Mr. McMillan. I think my time is expired. Thank you, Mr. 

 Sandefur. 



Mr. Sandefur. Thank you, sir. 



Mr. Wyden [presiding]. Mr. Sandefur, a bit ago you told Mr. 

 Waxman that consumers don't like cigarettes that have lower nico- 

 tine levels, but according to a secret project, a secret BAT project 

 that's not been discussed before to my knowledge, called Project 

 Wheat, I think consumers have told your company a bit more and 

 I would like to display a couple of charts, charts 12 and 13, to re- 

 view this Project Wheat. 



Now what Project Wheat was about, it was a study of smokers' 

 inner need for nicotine. And according to the definition of your com- 

 pany, it was closely related to, "the anticipated difficulty in giving 

 up smoking." 



It goes on to say the inner need relates to psychological benefits 

 such as the relief of stress and to aid concentration but does say 

 specifically that this inner need study does relate to the anticipated 



