227 



Mr. Waxman. That's a euphemism for nicotine levels. 



Mr. Sandefur. No, sir, it is more than nicotine, but it's — I don't 

 mean to be disrespectful, but it is more than nicotine, we were 

 looking for a high impact, a cigarette that would taste like a ciga- 

 rette that had higher tar. 



Mr. Waxman. And higher nicotine. 



Mr. Sandefur. Higher tar. 



Mr. Waxman. And higher nicotine. 



Mr. Sandefur. No, not higher nicotine. See, we were — what we 

 were doing was trying to have a competitive product that would ap- 

 peal to smokers who were looking for lower tar cigarettes. Up until 

 very recently, Mr. Chairman, the American public has believed be- 

 cause I would submit that the Congress and any number of experts 

 in this area have said that tar was the problem. You see, with ciga- 

 rettes so, the industry has constantly been trying to reduce tar. 



Mr. Waxman. When you reduce the tar, the nicotine level goes 

 down as well? 



Mr. Sandefur. The nicotine comes down. 



Mr. Waxman. So, therefore, you have to blend to get the nicotine 

 level back up. 



Mr. Sandefur. What we were trying to do was maintain a cer- 

 tain amount of nicotine which gives us better taste 



Mr. Waxman. Which you wouldn't be able to maintain because 

 so much of that nicotine has been reduced along with the tar. 



Mr. Sandefur. What it would do is affect the taste characteris- 

 tics of cigarettes. What we were trying to do is blend 



Mr. Waxman. That's because the nicotine level had been reduced, 

 so you need to have it back to where it was. 



Mr. Sandefur. As part of it, and nicotine being a very important 

 constituent of the taste characteristics of cigarettes. 



Mr. Waxman. I'm going to ask unanimous consent to give Mr. 

 Kreidler another 4 minutes because I took his time and I regret it. 



Mr. Kreidler. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me just 

 follow, and then I want to go back to another, earlier question just 

 for some clarification. 



When I asked about Y-1 or other methods for increasing nicotine 

 transfer efficiency, are you aware that BAT, your parent company, 

 has done studies in this area? For example, in 1966, BAT'S major 

 research arm issued a report called "Further Work on Extractable 

 Nicotine," perhaps you could define for me what "extractable nico- 

 tine" means? 



Mr. Sandefur. No, sir, I can't. But let me make an offer to this 

 committee. There's a great deal of questions in, obviously, your 

 minds about research documents. That I can't answer the questions 

 to. Research documents that were done prior to my joining the 

 company, that I'm not familiar with 



Mr. Kreidler. I can appreciate that particular point you are 

 making. 



Mr. Sandefur. If I might make a suggestion. 



Mr. Kreidler. Sure. 



Mr. Sandefur. If this committee would like to know with this re- 

 search, I would be more than happy to have my scientists in writ- 

 ing respond to your questions with regard to the research. 



