248 



Mr. Synar. All right. Mr. Sandefur, one last time. Look at the 

 last paragraph on the first page and let me read it for all those 

 who are listening. 



"In the early 1950's" — this is to Dr. Kessler from Mr. Johnston. 

 "In the early 1950's, the sales weighted averages of 'tar' and nico- 

 tine yields are were 36 milligrams at 2.7 milligrams, respectively. 

 Most cigarette brands were in a narrow band around this average. 

 Flue-cured tobacco naturally contains 2.5 to 3.5 percent nicotine, 

 hurley tobacco contains 2.75 to 4.0 percent nicotine, and Oriental 

 tobacco contains 0.5 to 1.8 percent nicotine in the cured leaf. Fin- 

 ished cigarettes generally contain approximately 1.5 to 2.5 percent 

 nicotine by weight, less than the natural cured leaf." 



So if the natural cured leaf and the natural level of nicotine in 

 flue-cured tobacco is 2.5 to 3.5, and you have spent the last decade 

 trying to develop a plant variety of more than 6 percent nicotine, 

 doesn't that show a deliberate manipulation and a desire to control 

 the nicotine level in tobacco by your company? 



Mr. Sandefur. I don't agree, no, sir. 



Mr. Synar. Thank you, Mr. Sandefur. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you, Mr. Synar. 



We are being summoned to the House Floor for the purpose of 

 a vote. We are going to respond to that vote and come back and 

 see if we can finish up this hearing with another round. 



[Brief recess.] 



Mr. Waxman. The meeting will come back to order. 



At this time, I want to recognize Mr. Kreidler. 



Mr. Kreidler. Mr. Sandefur, let me go to the health effects. This 

 is an issue that is kind of close to me personally. As a person who 

 has been in that profession for over 20 years but also holds a Mas- 

 ters in Public Health, I'm somewhat intrigued by one of the com- 

 ments you made in your opening statement, and that had to do 

 with your testimony that "there is a health risk statistically associ- 

 ated with smoking." 



I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean by "statis- 

 tically relevant" here, relative to health risks. Perhaps you could 

 elaborate on that. 



Mr. Sandefur. All right, sir. It's my understanding that the 

 medical community, through autopsies, say that this individual 

 died from lung cancer, let's say, and that individual may be a 

 smoker. And let's say 80 percent of people who die of lung cancer 

 were smokers. That's a statistical association, as opposed to the 

 smoking caused the lung cancer. 



Mr. Kreidler. You know we often use those types of statistics 

 and we often associate it with carcinogenic effects, cancer causing 

 effects and so forth. 



Mr. Sandefur. Right. 



Mr. Kreidler. And how many people will die if they are exposed 

 to certain things, certain chemicals and so forth. Is that saying 

 then, statistically, that if you smoke, statistically you run the risk 

 of dying of, let's say, lung cancer or something of that nature? 



Mr. Sandefur. I'm saying that there is a risk and there's a sta- 

 tistical association with the risk, yes, sir. I certainly agree to that. 



