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My concern, Congressman, is that, as you know, my discipline is 

 marketing. 



And I know very often that statistics can be very misleading, and 

 that's the reason I'm very suspicious of some of the quotes that — 

 not to suggest by any means that the individuals making the 

 quotes don't believe what they are saying, I'm sure they do — but 

 to say that 419 or 430 million people die of smoking as a disease 

 every year. I find that hard to fathom but, I mean, again, that's — 

 I understand that that's based on statistical association, yes, sir. 



Mr. Kreidler. Would you say then that there is an increased 

 risk to an individual who smokes as opposed to a person who 

 doesn't smoke? 



Mr. Sandefur. I believe there's a risk, yes, I do. 



Mr. Kreidler. Would it be fair to say, then, that certain people 

 are going to die as a result of smoking that wouldn't have died if 

 they hadn't smoked? 



Mr. Sandefur. Well, see, I wouldn't go that far, because I think 

 smoking is a risk factor. I think diet is a risk factor. I think hered- 

 ity is a risk factor. I think there are any number of things that, 

 in combination with smoking, may enhance the risk factor, you see. 



I'm suggesting to you. Congressman, that I don't — I hadn't seen 

 any research nor have my people, my scientists told me of research 

 that directly links smoking as the cause of lung cancer. And if I 

 had that research, if my scientists came to me and I was convinced 

 that research was valid, I would be the first person to stand up and 

 say that. But, see, I don't — I don't — I haven't seen that. My sci- 

 entists haven't told me that. 



Mr. Kreidler. Well, you know, we make a lot of decisions rel- 

 ative to regulating different substances and so forth in our society 

 that we come to a conclusion that, statistically, we can identify 

 them as a public health risk. 



Mr. Sandefur. Yes, sir. And I understand that and, as I say, we 

 in the industry abide by the laws that Congress enact and I think 

 we have crossed that bridge in our warning statements to the 

 American public, you know. 



I don't think anybody could have any doubt about what the Sur- 

 geon General's warning is when he says smoking causes lung can- 

 cer, heart disease, emphysema and may complicate pregnancy. I 

 think that's pretty straightforward. And I don't think there is any 

 confusion with that warning statement. 



And I would submit to you, I haven't done the research or have 

 seen research done, but I would submit to you that the majority 

 of people who smoke are perfectly aware of the risk factor. 



Mr. Kreidler. So you wouldn't contest, then, that government 

 has a role when we statistically identify that there are health risks 

 in certain areas, for example, PCB's or some other type of very 

 toxic substance that's in society, and we find so many parts per bil- 

 lion or whatever in the water supply or in the air, that we try to 

 minimize people's risk factors associated with that statistically, as 

 you admit. 



And I think that's true for the industry as a whole, that there 

 are health risks associated with smoking. If that is true, then it 

 would seem that from a public health standpoint, that we should 



