251 



I guess I come to the conclusion that those are rather dramatic 

 statistics. If those statistics are valid, then they certainly seem to 

 say to Congress from a public health' standpoint, whatever we are 

 doing right now is inadequate and we need to do more. 



Are you saying that what we have in place right now is sufficient 

 but perhaps it isn't being administered and is not as forceful as it 

 should be? 



Mr. Sandefur. That may be the case but, for instance. Congress- 

 man, I get very concerned when I'm told that children are able to 

 buy cigarettes. Because I don't think children should be able to buy 

 cigarettes. I don't think they are well informed enough to make a 

 choice. So in that regard, maybe the rule should be challenged in 

 terms of how we are monitoring that particular legislation. 



Mr. Kreidler. My dad started smoking when he was 14 years 

 of age. 



Mr. Sandefur. My daddy did too and smoked for about 45 years 

 and he's 82 years old. And he doesn't smoke anymore but he's 

 doing fine, thank you. 



Mr. Kreidler. Well, in 1985 I held my dad's hand when he died 

 of emphysema. 



Mr. Sandefur. I heard you say that at the last meeting and I'm 

 very sorry to hear that. 



Mr. KlffilDLER. I think maybe because of that and the kind of sta- 

 tistics we have in front of us, if our institutions — if our rules and 

 regulations aren't protecting some 400,000 people out there right 

 now and doing everything we can as a society to minimize the risks 

 to them, it seems that it could certainly dictate to Congress to at 

 least encourage agencies that have the authority right now to be 

 more forceful or to institute regulation they presently aren't doing. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you, Mr. Kreidler. 



Mr. Sandefur, I want to discuss Project Aries and I have a chart 

 I would like to have distributed — held up. T.F. Riehl, who is vice 

 president for research and development at Brown & Williamson, he 

 was involved in the development of Project Aries. He was with you 

 when you testified last time. 



Mr. Sandefur. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Waxman. He also made a presentation on this Project Aries 

 at a 1984 BAT smoking behavior marketing conference. According 

 to the proceedings of that conference, Aries used the novel filter 

 that I quote him in saying, "achieved tar reduction by ventilation 

 alone and thus provided unfiltered smoke at low tar deliveries," 

 specifically, "Aries smoke chemistry differs because it provides nic- 

 otine enrichment in later puffs." 



I find that statement about Project Aries to be very striking. Mr. 

 Riehl testified with you and he said that you at Brown & 

 Williamson design cigarettes for taste but not for nicotine. Yet in 

 this Project Aries, he said specifically that you were working on a 

 cigarette that provides nicotine enrichment in later puffs. 



I think there might be a conflict here and I want to see how you 

 can reconcile these statements that you don't design for nicotine 

 with your work on a cigarette specifically designed to provide nico- 

 tine enrichment in later puffs. 



