254 



I want that to be the possibility before us. I said that at the meet- 

 ing with the chief executive officers a couple of months ago and I 

 say it to you, even with a greater sense of excitement because 

 you've indicated your willingness to cooperate in this way as well. 



Mr. Sandefur. I will certainly encourage my counterparts — the 

 competition — to do that and I would certainly like to make an ally 

 out of the Chairman. I don't think it serves anybody's purpose to 

 have going on what we've got going on. 



Mr. Waxman. I do want to make some underscoring of some 

 things we have learned today, even though you haven't been par- 

 ticularly responsive to some of those points for various reasons. 



Brown & Williamson and BAT have studied the pharmacological 

 properties of nicotine for 30 years and its scientists have found sig- 

 nificant drug-like properties in nicotine. I think that's important, 

 and with the documents you've given us, I think it's very clear that 

 is what has happened. And this Project Wheat, which we have also 

 learned about today from these documents, identified the market 

 need for a low tar, high nicotine cigarette for those with an inner 

 need for nicotine. 



Now, maybe inner need becomes one of those terms like taste, 

 whatever it may mean may be determined by the one using it. But 

 it sounds to me like an inner need is something different than a 

 taste. It sounds like something to which people get a pharma- 

 cological reaction. 



And then I do want to point out that when we look at Project 

 Truth and Project Janus going on at the very same time, one in- 

 tended to convince the American people that it wasn't a danger to 

 smoke and the other in fact uncovering these very dangers. I know 

 that was before your time, but I find that very distressing to think 

 that a corporation would be going through that kind of a process, 

 on the one hand misleading people — at the same time that they are 

 learning the very facts, they are trying to tell people they don't 

 exist. And I would hope that you and others would see that as 

 something that would be considered irresponsible. 



Mr. Sandefur. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your comments. I can 

 tell you that during my tenure or career with BAT, that BAT is a 

 very honorable company. I can tell you categorically that I don't 

 think that the management of BAT that I've been exposed to would 

 intentionally mislead anyone. 



I would like to have the opportunity to get back to you on some 

 of these studies that you obviously are very interested in, such as 

 the wheat study. Quite honestlv, I didn't — I didn't know of the 

 study until I came here today. And I'm sure that if my scientists 

 would have thought that was very important in terms of the way 

 we were marketing or designing our cigarettes, they would have 

 brought that to my attention. 



But I will ask them to take a view of that particular study, and 

 I'm talking about Brown & Williamson scientists, take a view of 

 that particular study and acknowledge it in writing back to you as 

 chairman of the committee. 



Mr. Waxman. Thank you. 



Mr. Bliley, any further comments or questions? 



Mr. Bliley. Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank Mr. Sandefur. 

 I think you have been most candid. I think you have tried to an- 



