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Mr. Clayton. My name is Gregory Clayton. I am director of the 

 Fredericksburg Air Office of the Virginia Department of Environ- 

 mental Quality. I cannot give you a specific answer as to how much 

 of that — the pollution may be coming in from out of State. Cer- 

 tainly the Department recognizes that there is considerable impact 

 from out of State. 



Mr. Synar. What States and what sources? 



Mr. Clayton. As far away as the Ohio Valley and perhaps fur- 

 ther. One of the things that the Department feels should also be 

 looked at is a regional approach to this problem. 



Mr. Synar. Mr. Michaels, do you think the State of Virginia is 

 trying to set a standard for impairment that no one can meet? 



Mr. Michaels. I cannot answer that. Perhaps my colleague 

 could. 



Mr. Synar. How about you, Mr. Clayton? Do you think the State 

 of Virginia is trying to set a standard for impairment that no one 

 can meet? 



Mr. Clayton. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Synar. In many of their PSD comments to Virginia, Federal 

 land managers suggested that the State require offsets for new 

 sources. Do you think the State has the authority to require off- 

 sets? 



Mr. Clayton. We believe that it may be appropriate to require 

 offsets in cases where adverse impacts are shown, that a new 

 source would significantly contribute to adverse impacts, yes, sir. 



Mr. Synar. You know, this testimony that you all presented 

 today is disturbing. All of us in this room, at least in the imme- 

 diate area, go to the Shenandoah a lot. I go. You saw the pictures. 

 That is disturbing. 



All of us who love national parks, particularly the ones we can 

 drive to and use, being residents part time here, are you all con- 

 cerned about those pictures? Are you concerned about that haze? 

 Doesn't that bother you? Mr. Michaels, doesn't it bother you? 



Mr. Michaels. I am certainly concerned about large scale 

 anthropo-generated reductions in visibility. However, the pictures 

 you showed are very, very telling. I was most impressed with the 

 one in the middle, which is the average visibility, because 100 spe- 

 cifically trained observers could not find a decline in that mean vis- 

 ibility in the last quarter century. 



When the visibility did decline or when it changed from between 

 years, from month to month, all the airport observers saw it simul- 

 taneously. So we are not looking at a decline in the last quarter 

 century. 



Furthermore, I think there is a very interesting piece of informa- 

 tion that may be coming from the park visitors themselves. The 

 park visitors, I have read in news reports, and that is the best I 

 can do with it, have stated they perceive an increased number of 

 days in which the visibility is dramatically impaired. I think you 

 probably have read that, too. 



Because we cannot find that increase — by the way, that occurred 

 in the 1980's. That is my understanding. Because we cannot find 

 a change in the mean visibility, the average visibility, that means 

 that if the average stays the same and the perceived number of bad 



