170 



Mr. Synar. Wouldn't it require every potential source in the 

 State to be studied before an action could be taken? 



Mr. Haddow. Not only inside Colorado but outside Colorado, at 

 least that is one proposal. 



Mr. Synar. So in other words, they would never do it? 



Mr. Haddow. That is very possible. 



Mr. Synar. Well, are you likely to try more BART cases in the 

 future, given your experience here? 



Ms. Bacioel. I think that really depends on a case-by-case situa- 

 tion. I would certainly feel that if we have the substantive data be- 

 hind us that, yes, we would be moving ahead with that informa- 

 tion. 



Mr. Synar. The fact is that unless you have cooperation with the 

 States, you are dead in the water on this; aren't you? 



Ms. Backiel. The collaboration is absolutely essential for suc- 

 cessful implementation of these provisions, yes. 



Mr. Synar. I hope Colorado is listening. 



Let me go to you, Mr. Frampton, if I could. 



I want to first of all tell you, I know that the superintendent at 

 Shenandoah National Forest and the people down there have taken 

 a heck of a lot of political heat. This is one Congressman that is 

 very proud of the service they are doing. 



You can pass the word along. We know what they are trying to 

 do and it hasn't gone unnoticed. We do appreciate them and I think 

 sometimes we don't compliment your people when they do a good 

 job. 



Mr. Frampton. Thank you. 



Mr. Synar. Before I go to the questions, does the Department of 

 Interior wish to comment on the testimony of Professor Michaels 

 and the other witnesses that we had up here? 



Mr. Frampton. Mr. Chairman, I am here with John Christiano, 

 who is the head of the Air Quality Division, and a number of his 

 staff members, and I think at your request, Dr. William Malm is 

 available to respond. 



Mr. Synar. Do you have any brief comments on what Mr. Mi- 

 chaels said? 



Welcome back, Mr. Malm, nice to see you again. 



Mr. Malm. Mr. Michaels, as I understand it, responded to a 

 statement made by the Shenandoah staff that visibility has de- 

 creased from the 1950's to current conditions very significantly. In 

 fact if you look at the data, and the data has been reported widely 

 by HUSAR, and it is in the State of Science NAPAP reports, the 

 data shows that from 1940 to 1970, the visibility went from about 

 120 to 150 miles, which was suggested by the cleanest photographs 

 you saw of Shenandoah up there, to about 6 to 10 miles. 



Mr. Synar. How far? 



Mr. Malm. 120 to 150 miles is what 



Mr. Synar. To 6 to 10 miles? 



Mr. Malm. That was in about 1940, 1945 to 6 to 10 miles, and 

 this is summertime as opposed to wintertime. That 120 to 150 

 miles is also consistent with John Trijonis's estimates of natural 

 conditions. In other words, natural conditions would yield about 

 120- to 150- mile visual range. That also is reported in the State of 

 Science report of NAPAP. 



