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we need form to guarantee substance. I agree with you that both a 

 responsiveness to small businesses and an advocacy of environmen- 

 tal technology need to become part of the culture of the agency, of 

 the department. But to do that best, I think we need to have some 

 locus of advocacy and responsibility. 



Let me just mention to you two things about small business. One 

 is to congratulate you on what you did in Florida in this regard, 

 because I think it is just about the best that has been done in the 

 country at a State level, and secondly, this office of small business 

 ombudsman that exists now, which was just created by Executive 

 act, I think has touched a nerve here, because I noticed in some of 

 my review of it that they set up a hot line. 



Ms. Browner. Yes. 



Senator Lieberman. They receive over 20,000 calls a year, which 

 shows that there is a real need for something like this out there. 



Thank you. 



Ms. Browner. You are exactly right. The hot line has been tre- 

 mendously successful and we will probably need to do more of that 

 sort of outreach. 



Chairman Glenn. Before we go to Senator Cochran, I just 

 wanted to comment. 



We have talked about a stripped-down bill. We passed a bill here 

 last year. It was not a stripped-down bill, but I think it is our opin- 

 ion that even a stripped-down bill would not have passed the House 

 last year, because in our discussion with the people over there, I do 

 not think the House wanted a stripped-down bill. In fact, they were 

 going the other direction: they wanted to include a lot of other 

 things in there and establish some policy in an)rthing that was 

 going to pass over there. So I do not think it is just a free ride here. 

 If we put a stripped-down bill in, that does not mean it is going to 

 go through the House, necessarily. 



Senator Cochran. 



Senator Cochran. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I just came from a meeting of the Rules Committee where we 

 were going over the funding resolution for all of the committees of 

 the Senate. One of the issues that we were having to face is a cut- 

 ting back of size in terms of staffing, reducing each standing com- 

 mittee's budget by 10 percent, £dl of these things that we are doing 

 right now here internally in the Senate to try to cut back on costs. 



I wonder, in view of the President's speech last night and his 

 challenge to cut back, tighten up, and try to find ways of saving 

 money, if we are not running this morning just in the opposite di- 

 rection and at cross purposes with the President's challenge, by 

 having this hearing and seriously considering establishing a new 

 department in the Executive Branch, which requires adding more 

 employees. Have you looked at this legislation from the point of 

 view of cost implications, or has this been — there is a new word I 

 have learned in the last few weeks from this Administration — a 

 vetting. Have we had a vetting of this bill, to the extent that we 

 know whether there will be additional costs? 



Ms. Browner. Senator, you raise a very good point. I have two 

 comments in response. The CBO has estimated that the elevation 

 from agency status to department status will cost approximately 

 $30,000. That speaks to the elevation. The bill speaks to some other 



